Need to do another enviro reveiw so we can send more work to the same consulting firm and get more kickbacks...
"Caltrain says that although the two trains will use the same tracks, the electrification project is “independent” and high-speed rail’s use of the corridor will require a separate environmental review."
I believe the plan is to use money from the high-speed rail "source" on something that is not high-speed rail. Because it will become high-speed rail. Later. Or not.
If it was never to become high-speed rail, ya couldn't get the money.
But.
Since it's GONNA be high-speed rail, you can get the money. Even if it's not high-speed rail.
Get it?
Now, I admit, this might seem anti-high-speed-rail, but I do question why trains will be running at ground level at, what, 150 MPH? Is that really a good idea?
On the other hand, if the tracks were to be raised to clear the "irritations" of ground level, what does that have to do with current ground level tracks?
Just wondering,
Ed
It is typical beauracrat doublespeak. Right now my boss wants to replace a wash bay. We started 5 years ago. We are only half way done with the EPA and IEPA on all the EIPS that they want. Yet we have wash bay currently running on this site we are going to replace it with. Yeah it can be that furstrating. Heck there are times I hear my boss say screw it I selling out then the next day say I do this for my employees. He deals with more idiots at times than there are Chin's in the Bejing phone book at the Government level. Just yesterday some one from the EEOC tried to say we do not hire enough Minority race personal. He stated if they could pass the Federal Background check required for a Haz-mat endorsement and also pass a drug test I would gladly hire them if they fail to do both they are useless to me. EEOC person walked away stammering something about lawsuit. I guess we will see where that one goes also. How can we be sued for being in compliance to move dangerous chemicals that we require all drivers to have a Haz-mat endorsement and doing saftey sensitive work yet refusing to hire those that can not meet the requirements set by the Federal Government. How I love the Government one hand does NOT KNOW what the Other is doing half the time.
Re the Original Post:
I believe the electrification and the HSR are 2 different projects on the same set of tracks. I think the electrification is more likely and would happen sooner than the HSR, so the electrification ought to have its own Environmental Impact Statement so it can move forward regardless of what happens with the HSR.
Also, the HSR will likely have a lot of different impacts than the electrification - such as grade crossing elimination and all the earthwork that will involve, for example. If I was the owner or project manager for the electrification, I wouldn't want my project burdened with having to explain, justify, and remediate all that additional stuff - the electrification is really just a relatively simple accessory to the rail line, after all.
Why they have 2 EIS required it is some 2 sets of Government workers can justify their outrageous salaries and also suck us dry for more tax dollars every year. They can't end up with a power line ending up in the flight path of a moth can we. So let's make sure it doesn't happen by delaying the project for years.
It takes over 10 years from the start of a project to get the permits needed anymore that is longer than a President can serve and at anytime anyone in an office can deny it for any reason they want. Yet people wonder why no new factories or refineries get built in the USA anymore it takes dang near an Act of God to get the Government out of the way.
Western Maryland Scenic Steam Engine 734 is under its 15 year inspection and I stopped by there office in the WM Cumberland Depot and they explained to me that regulators could take up to 15 years to take apart the entire engine and put it back together again...Meanwhile they are running diesal untill there "new" C&O Steam engine comes on line later this summer.
Shadow the Cats owner Why they have 2 EIS required it is some 2 sets of Government workers can justify their outrageous salaries and also suck us dry for more tax dollars every year. They can't end up with a power line ending up in the flight path of a moth can we. So let's make sure it doesn't happen by delaying the project for years. It takes over 10 years from the start of a project to get the permits needed anymore that is longer than a President can serve and at anytime anyone in an office can deny it for any reason they want. Yet people wonder why no new factories or refineries get built in the USA anymore it takes dang near an Act of God to get the Government out of the way.
I'm pretty much in agreement with that. Government employees, regardless of their status, have a vested interest in protecting their jobs. The salary and benefits are good so I understand their position. They have a right to earn a living and like to eat the same as do those of us who are supporting them through our taxes. A huge proportion of them would not survive for long in the business world.
OTOH, they have an obligation to provide the best services at the least cost and many from high management levels are betraying the trust we have given them. They are not living up to that committment. Hence, a lot of regulation issued by administrations that have no interest in their constituiencies well being but are only there for their own personal benefit. Regulations they propose are not usually to the benefit of the populace but are designed to protect government jobs.
There were times our government was helpful. Those days have disappeared.
Norm
Gov. Hogan just cancelled the Red Line Light Rail in B'More MD. If another Mayor in 2-5 years wants to start it up again they have to start all the Enviro Impact studies from scratch.
As I said, the EIS for an electrification would be much simpler/ faster/ cheaper than one for an HSR route or upgrade to an existing line. As such, why should the electrification be burdened with the HSR one? Let each pay for its own, if they can - isn't that a fairer and more appropriate allocation ?
A properly done "alternatives analysis" and EIS are almost a business/ operating plan, but without the $ in it. That's a legitimare criticism - i.e., that the cost and burden of the EIS are not taken into account, either. But most of that study ought to be done anyway to justify the project from a financial and practical standpoint - that's part of the justification of the need for the project and the cost/ benefit analysis.
Remember too that most EIS are required, the EPA was established, and the regulations are issued and administered pursuant to the 1970 Environmental Protection Act, which was signed by another Republican President, Richard M. Nixon. And Congress - as the creator of the Act - always has the power to change/ modify/ restrict the Act and the regulations, if it so chooses.
Anyway, railroads -as "utilities" with an existing Right-Of-Way - have a lot easier time with the EIS and permits for an upgrade or widening than a completely "new build" (except for 2nd bridges over streams). Most of the projects covered here by K.P. Harrier demonstrate that.
By the way, I've got the certificate from the AREMA "Environmental Permitting for Railroad Construction Projects" seminar. Anybody else here have one ?
That said: Shadow - for real, the EIS for the early 2000's acquistion of the EJ&E by CN had to include an assessment of the potential impact on butterfly migrations from the projected many additional openings/ closings of a certain drawbridge, as I recall.
- PDN.
Norm48327 Shadow the Cats owner Why they have 2 EIS required it is some 2 sets of Government workers can justify their outrageous salaries and also suck us dry for more tax dollars every year. They can't end up with a power line ending up in the flight path of a moth can we. So let's make sure it doesn't happen by delaying the project for years. It takes over 10 years from the start of a project to get the permits needed anymore that is longer than a President can serve and at anytime anyone in an office can deny it for any reason they want. Yet people wonder why no new factories or refineries get built in the USA anymore it takes dang near an Act of God to get the Government out of the way. I'm pretty much in agreement with that. Government employees, regardless of their status, have a vested interest in protecting their jobs. The salary and benefits are good so I understand their position. They have a right to earn a living and like to eat the same as do those of us who are supporting them through our taxes. A huge proportion of them would not survive for long in the business world. OTOH, they have an obligation to provide the best services at the least cost and many from high management levels are betraying the trust we have given them. They are not living up to that committment. Hence, a lot of regulation issued by administrations that have no interest in their constituiencies well being but are only there for their own personal benefit. Regulations they propose are not usually to the benefit of the populace but are designed to protect government jobs. There were times our government was helpful. Those days have disappeared.
Johnny
A month and a half ago a town to the north of me got hit by a tornado. Multiple roofs where destroyed. Homes that were 70-80 years old had their roofs ripped clean off. How did the building inspector respond the homes were not up to Buliding codes and therefore where unsafe to live in. The new codes he was referring to where put into effect just 7 years ago after my town got hammered by a tornado. The irony of his statement a city owned building lost its roof also and he was asked why it did not have the clips on it. He responded the codes were not in effect at the time the roof had been installed.
Shadow the Cats owner A month and a half ago a town to the north of me got hit by a tornado. Multiple roofs where destroyed. Homes that were 70-80 years old had their roofs ripped clean off. How did the building inspector respond the homes were not up to Buliding codes and therefore where unsafe to live in. The new codes he was referring to where put into effect just 7 years ago after my town got hammered by a tornado. The irony of his statement a city owned building lost its roof also and he was asked why it did not have the clips on it. He responded the codes were not in effect at the time the roof had been installed.
"Shadow" The roof, when installed, was up to the then-current code! Generally, a "new' project must be built to the current building codes at the time it is (re-) constructed.
A good friend had condos in Pensacola Beach, Hurricane Floyd, destroyed his building (all but the concrete frame). When it was built back, it was'built back' according to the then- current Building Codes for Miami-Dade County; Glass doors and windows had to meet a 'test' stength( that withstood a 2x4 piercing them), without shattering,at some rediculous velocity(around 90 or 100mph(?) They weigh a tremendous amount now...
Laws change and regulations change. In 1969 The National Environmental Protection Act was enacted into Federal Law:
"...
There is a need, therefore, to balance environmental protection with efficient and cost-effective infrastructure development. But it is at this critical juncture that the environmental movement has run off the rails. The passage of the National Environmental Protection Act (NEPA) in 1969 signaled the dawn of a new era in environmental law—the age of non-stop permit-process. NEPA itself contains no substantive requirements intended to enhance overall environmental protection; but it does introduce an elaborate system of “permitting” that must be satisfied before any particular project can proceed.
Thus under NEPA, it becomes incumbent to prepare an environmental impact statement for all “proposals for legislation and other major Federal actions significantly affecting the quality of the human environment.” That statement must deal with the full range of potential “adverse environmental effects,” coupled with an evaluation of the alternatives to that action, in light of both their short- and long-term impact. From its inception, NEPA was given its most aggressive interpretation, chiefly on the ground that all the risks lay in allowing projects to go forward, especially nuclear power facilities, rather than slowing them down..."
Above quote is from "The Environmental Permit Menace"
Sam, are the Miami-Dade COunty regulations enforced all over Florida? I ask because Pensacola Beach is nowhere near Miami, but is very close to Pensacola.
DeggestyNorm48327 Shadow the Cats owner Why they have 2 EIS required it is some 2 sets of Government workers can justify their outrageous salaries and also suck us dry for more tax dollars every year. They can't end up with a power line ending up in the flight path of a moth can we. So let's make sure it doesn't happen by delaying the project for years. It takes over 10 years from the start of a project to get the permits needed anymore that is longer than a President can serve and at anytime anyone in an office can deny it for any reason they want. Yet people wonder why no new factories or refineries get built in the USA anymore it takes dang near an Act of God to get the Government out of the way. I'm pretty much in agreement with that. Government employees, regardless of their status, have a vested interest in protecting their jobs. The salary and benefits are good so I understand their position. They have a right to earn a living and like to eat the same as do those of us who are supporting them through our taxes. A huge proportion of them would not survive for long in the business world. OTOH, they have an obligation to provide the best services at the least cost and many from high management levels are betraying the trust we have given them. They are not living up to that committment. Hence, a lot of regulation issued by administrations that have no interest in their constituiencies well being but are only there for their own personal benefit. Regulations they propose are not usually to the benefit of the populace but are designed to protect government jobs. There were times our government was helpful. Those days have disappeared. Yes, something more than thirty years ago, someone high in government said that the worst introduction anyone could give you was "I'm from the government and I am here to help you."
Shadow the Cats owner Why they have 2 EIS required it is some 2 sets of Government workers can justify their outrageous salaries and also suck us dry for more tax dollars every year. They can't end up with a power line ending up in the flight path of a moth can we. So let's make sure it doesn't happen by delaying the project for years. It takes over 10 years from the start of a project to get the permits needed anymore that is longer than a President can serve and at anytime anyone in an office can deny it for any reason they want. Yet people wonder why no new factories or refineries get built in the USA anymore it takes dang near an Act of God to get the Government out of the way. I'm pretty much in agreement with that. Government employees, regardless of their status, have a vested interest in protecting their jobs. The salary and benefits are good so I understand their position. They have a right to earn a living and like to eat the same as do those of us who are supporting them through our taxes. A huge proportion of them would not survive for long in the business world. OTOH, they have an obligation to provide the best services at the least cost and many from high management levels are betraying the trust we have given them. They are not living up to that committment. Hence, a lot of regulation issued by administrations that have no interest in their constituiencies well being but are only there for their own personal benefit. Regulations they propose are not usually to the benefit of the populace but are designed to protect government jobs. There were times our government was helpful. Those days have disappeared.
Yes, something more than thirty years ago, someone high in government said that the worst introduction anyone could give you was "I'm from the government and I am here to help you."
Johnny,
It is classic phrase. When pilots and mechanics hear that they flee the scene posthaste. They know trouble is afoot. I presume railroaders have the same opinion.
That said, I managed to establish good rapport with those feds was forced to deal with. Cooperation and humor went a long way to establish good relationships. The door swings both ways if one is agreeable to the other's side of the story.
Norm48327That said, I managed to establish good rapport with those feds was forced to deal with.
This can happen at all levels, right down to local. If you take a decent attitude with most of them, they'll actually bend over backwards to help you.
Of course, there are those who consider themselves in a position of power and want to make sure that everyone knows it. They give all the other government types a bad name...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Here in Buffalo we can still send a case of whiskey and some nice cigars to the right poltico to get things done.
CandOforprogress2Need to do another enviro reveiw so we can send more work to the same consulting firm and get more kickbacks... "Caltrain says that although the two trains will use the same tracks, the electrification project is “independent” and high-speed rail’s use of the corridor will require a separate environmental review."
https://despair.com/collections/posters/products/consulting
"If you're not a part of the solution, there's good money to be made in prolonging the problem."
The EIS is supposd to be a planning to help decision makers (both public and private ) make good informed decisions regarding proposed projects by evaluating the environmental impacts both good and adverse and determine how mitigate adverse impacts.
Very quickly it evolved into a method to kill projects
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
All 6 EIS's that we have filed with the EPA and the Illinois version of it have all determined the same thing our current tank wash out facility is to small for our fleet and needs to be replaced lessening our negative impact on the harm to the enviroment that we would have in the time it would take to construct the new one and tear down the old one and mediate the damage that has been done by the current one. Yet someone in the Federal Government along with Springfield thinks us reducing acid being dumped into the groundwater supply by over 10 tons a year. Yet they are dragging their feet.
This is the US and we have the best governments money can buy. Sometimes the price is higher than one wants to pay.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Shadow the Cats owner All 6 EIS's that we have filed with the EPA and the Illinois version of it have all determined the same thing our current tank wash out facility is to small for our fleet and needs to be replaced lessening our negative impact on the harm to the enviroment that we would have in the time it would take to construct the new one and tear down the old one and mediate the damage that has been done by the current one. Yet someone in the Federal Government along with Springfield thinks us reducing acid being dumped into the groundwater supply by over 10 tons a year. Yet they are dragging their feet.
CSSHEGEWISCHIt appears that you believe that the groundwater contaminated by the dumping of excess acid should be cleaned up by somebody else who uses that water for various purposes, including coooking and drinking. Somebody has to pay for it, just not your employer.
I dunno - sounds to me more like they want to take care of what they can of the previous problem and install a facility that will help prevent it from happening again.
I'm betting there's someone, somewhere, who would prefer they just close up shop and move elsewhere.
I can tell you it isn't the local schools last year we paid well over 1.2 million in property taxes between the 2 districts we get taxed for. It isn't the local cities as we employ 500 people total directly with jobs that start out at 30K a year minimum wages. Our local Volvo heavy truck dealer knows when my boss calls that he is selling at least 25 trucks at a time. About the only person that does not like us is one person near one of our warehouses that complains about our using a portable blower to mix the resins.
Who would prefer we go out of business I can think of 2 mega chemical carriers that our customers refuse to even talk to as the last time one of them wormed their way into a customer of ours well lets just say a pure load of HCL was put into a tank trailer that had not been cleaned properly the last load had been a base liquid and well quite the mess happened. We got the contract back two days later.
(There's at least one liquid bulk trucking firm at Morton that's an accident looking for a place to happen, and they unload railroad tank cars/ transfer to trucks)
Took a whole year for the enviro study in which everything else is held up,,will take more time for public comment and input period.
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/04/14-long-island-rail-road-wraps-up-environmental-study-on-main-line-expansion-project
There are several compaines in the tanker industry that if the FMCSA really took a long hard look at things are run at them would faint. We looked at buying a couple used tank trailers for expansion of our fleet about 3 years ago. Well one of our steps we do before we will sign a purchase order is a full what is called mandated inspection on Pressures thickness and other required tank issues. Well 3 of the 5 we were looking at failed 2 of the major portions of the inspection and their previous owners stated on Federal Inspections that they had passed them less than 2 months prior. You want to talk about hanging paper on inspections that right there is major. We passed on buying the used tank trailers and ordered new to our specs. So yeah the mega fleets need a closer look.
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