Every town probably at one time had one railroad that was dominant- especially if it only had one. At one time, our city was probably dominated by the Milwaukee Road. Was there ever a time that one railroad dominated the business in Chicago?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Really depends on how one defines Chicago.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Have a stretch and yawn.
https://archive.org/details/historyofchicago01inandr
https://archive.org/stream/chicagorailroadc00asso#page/n3/mode/2up
No. Chicago was the end of dozens of railroads, but none dominated like the PRR dominated Pittsburg or many other lines dominated the economy of many small towns with major shops and or yards, or multiple routes as in your case.
Who says you need one king?I'll submit that the major railroads that had their general offices in Chicago and otherwise participated in the culture of the city would together be the "rulers." I can think of four lines that, if one mentioned that he worked for "the railroad", the listener would almost immediately think of: C&NW, CB&Q, IC, and AT&SF. They were the lines who would advertise, sponsor radio programs, and haul a lot of passengers. They didn't dominate the city--how could they?--but they did dominate certain regions of the city and surrounding suburbs.Sorta like da mob.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
With commuter operations back in the day you could say that Chicago was really dominated by three roads - CB&Q, CNW and IC. CB&Q to the Western suburbs. CNW to the Northern suburbs and IC to the Southern suburbs. For a while CB&Q had competition with the CA&E interurban. Likewise CNW had some competition with the CNS&M interurban going toward Milwaukee. I don't know when the MILW got into the commuter business to the NorthWest but they were ultimately a player. All but the interurban routes are operated under the METRA banner today, with METRA having expanded a number of services.
Additionally the GM&O and CRI&P had limited commuter service to Joliet. Other carrier also operated some very limited commuter services.
If you rode one carrier's trains, that was the dominate carrier to you.
BaltACD With commuter operations back in the day you could say that Chicago was really dominated by three roads - CB&Q, CNW and IC. CB&Q to the Western suburbs. CNW to the Northern suburbs and IC to the Southern suburbs. For a while CB&Q had competition with the CA&E interurban. Likewise CNW had some competition with the CNS&M interurban going toward Milwaukee. I don't know when the MILW got into the commuter business to the NorthWest but they were ultimately a player. All but the interurban routes are operated under the METRA banner today, with METRA having expanded a number of services. Additionally the GM&O and CRI&P had limited commuter service to Joliet. Other carrier also operated some very limited commuter services. If you rode one carrier's trains, that was the dominate carrier to you.
For those nor real familiar with the Chicago area, almost the entire CA&E right of way has been preserved as the Illinois Prairie Path, one of the first rail-trails.
Falcon48Both railroads also served West Chcago, St. Charles and Geneva.
The CA&E Geneva branch split from the Elgin line at Geneva Jct. and on to West Chicago, Geneva and then up the west side of the Fox River to St. Charles. It was abandoned in 1937 and replaced with CA&E buses. The branch to Batavia was never well-used but served its electric power plant. The loss of the Roarin' Elgin was an avoidable tragedy.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Revised below.
Falcon48For those nor real familiar with the Chicago area, almost the entire CA&E right of way has been preserved as the Illinois Prairie Path, one of the first rail-trails.
Exactly! The Illinois Prairie Path (IPP) began on Monday, September 30, 1963 when the Chicago Tribune published a letter to the editor from May Theilgaard Watts advocating for a public path on the abandoned route of the Chicago, Aurora and Elgin Electric (CA&E) rail line.
From the Rails to Trails Conservancy website: https://www.railstotrails.org/
The rail-trail movement would see its formal birth with the opening of the Elroy-Sparta State Trail in 1965, and the opening of the Illinois Prairie Path soon thereafter.
This link has some good video of the trains that used the Elroy-Sparta route before 1965. http://www.elroy-sparta-trail.com/history
and the opening of the Illinois Prairie Path soon thereafter.
http://www.ipp.org/
Chicago had no dominant railroad in the sense that the Pennsylvania dominated Pittsburgh or the Southern Pacific dominated San Francisco.
Likewise, Chicago had no "co-dominant" railroads in the way that NYC and PRR were co-dominant in New York City.
However, a very rough measure of "preferred" railroad could be determined by the stram road collection of the Illinois Railway Museum. The "preferred" railroads are Burlington, Chicago & North Western, and Milwaukee Road.
schlimm Falcon48 Both railroads also served West Chcago, St. Charles and Geneva. The CA&E Geneva branch split from the Elgin line at Geneva Jct. and on to West Chicago, Geneva and then up the west side of the Fox River to St. Charles. It was abandoned in 1937 and replaced with CA&E buses. The branch to Batavia was never well-used but served its electric power plant. The loss of the Roarin' Elgin was an avoidable tragedy.
Falcon48 Both railroads also served West Chcago, St. Charles and Geneva.
Still. CA&E probably couldn't have survived past the early 1960's even if it had retained its Chicago access. The Congress (now Eisenhower) expressway that deprived CA&E of its Chicago entry would have also diverted a lot of passenger traffic when it was opened (remember that, in the 1950's, urban expressways weren't the parking lots during rush hours that they are today). Also, CNW's introduction of air conditioned bi-level cars for its competing commuter service in the late 1950's and early 1960's would have been a serious, and probably fatal blow. CA&E by the 1950's was a financially marginal operation and had no prospect of replacing its car fleet, much of which consisted of wooden cars dating back to the early 20th century and none of which was air conditioned.
The Fox River Trolley Museum has and operates one of the original wooden 1902 CA&E cars #20 and one of its newest cars #458 built in 1945. Both were on the line and operating on the day the line shut down. http://foxtrolley.org/equipment-roster
Falcon48But the main stem of the CA&E and the part of the railroad that carried the most commuters was the segment between Chicago and Wheaton, which operated passenger service until 1957. This was a strong competitor to the CNW until CA&E lost its direct entry to downtown Chicago in 1953 (when the 'L' line it used to reach Chicago was partially demolished).
All true. I grew up in Wheaton and recall riding with my mother on the CA&E. She preferred it to the C&NW (which my father commuted on for 30 years) because it was cleaner and after changing at Quincy to the L, she could ride to the 2nd floor of Fields (the china department).
Wheaton was where inbound sections from both the Elgin and Aurora/Batavia branches combined for the run into the city.
Any of you gentlemen have any first-hand experiences of the Chicago North Shore & Milwaukee? I read an absolutely fascinating article about it in "Classic Trains" several years back, and it struck me as a class act of a line.
It was abandoned in 1963 and from what I understand it's loss is still mourned by those who rode it.
Firelock76 Any of you gentlemen have any first-hand experiences of the Chicago North Shore & Milwaukee? I read an absolutely fascinating article about it in "Classic Trains" several years back, and it struck me as a class act of a line. It was abandoned in 1963 and from what I understand it's loss is still mourned by those who rode it.
I suspect CNS&M was only valued because of it's access to Ft. Sheridan, Great Lakes and the Loop shopping district which were three big destinations from Milwaukee during WWII and shortly after. My Dad only preferred it because the North Shore Line Depot was closer to Marquette campus than the Milwaukee Road Depot and the fare was cheaper to Chicago than what the Milwaukee charged.
Believe it or not the C&NW vs Milwaukee choice if it was a long distance trip was made based on connections in Chicago. C&NW's UP Connections meant Hollywood folks traveling from LA or Hollywood using the UP....used the C&NW largely by default, until it flipped in 1955. Short distance it depended on your origin. If you lived in the South Milwaukee Suburbs close to the lake, C&NW was more practical same deal with North Milwaukee Suburbs close to the lake, C&NW was more practical. Western suburbs of Milwaukee, Central City Milwaukee - Milwaukee Road was the choice. Some of that changed in 1965 when the Northwestern and Milwaukee combined Depots in Milwaukee and lines headed North out of the City.
Much/most of the North Shore's traffic base was commuters to the Loop.
In terms of freight railroading, Chicago was unusual in that it was by and large the "end of the line" for everyone. Chicago, St. Louis, Memphis, and New Orleans were similar. I'd say that you would have to break down by east, west, and south :West - My guess that the Burlington probably was on top of the heap due to the Hill Lines affiliation to the Pacific Northwest, with C&NW running a close second. South - Illinois Central, by far?East - Pennsy, NYC, then everyone else, with the edge to the PRR with the heavy coal traffic off their affliated N&W connections at Columbus?
For railroads operating west of Chicago the winner is the Chicago and North Western, without question. Let's look at the reasons:
1. Traffic. THE major movement of traffic west of Chicago (and still true even today for freight) has been to and from the Union Pacific at Council Bluffs, and over the years the North Western has always been the dominant carrier. Remember the "Overland Route?" Besides this traffic, the North Western also handled a large amount of traffic going to and from other directions, as described below in Item 2.
2. Routes. The North Western had THREE major routes radiating from Chicago; west to Council Bluffs (and the lines in Nebraska and Wyoming); northwest to Janesville, Madison, the Twin Cities, and the Twin Ports; and north to Milwaukee, Green Bay, northern Wisconsin, and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan (with construction of the Adams Cutoff this line also went to the Twin Cities). All three lines originated inside the Chicago city limits and were double or triple tracked going through Chicago. There is also the New Line, a freight-only line paralleling the North Line to Milwaukee.
3. Passenger stations. The CNW owned and operated their own depot, North Western Station; of the five Chicago passenger terminals this was the largest (and only) one used exclusively by a single railroad, and it was a large depot in its own right also.
4. Commuter operations. The North Western had the largest commuter operation in Chicago bar none, with trains operating west, northwest, and north. The North Line also had the distinction of serving the lakefront communities along Lake Michigan, some of the poshest in Chicago.
5. Yards. When Proviso Yard was built in the 1920s it was clained to be the "world's largest." Other yards later took the title but Proviso was always massive and one of the largest in Chicago. Also at Proviso was the giagantic LCL transfer shed with many acres under roof. In addition, the CNW had a large yard at 40th Street, and the Wood Street Yard serving the "world's largest" Wood Street Potato Market.
6. Shops. The large Chicago Shops complex (40th Street) was the location of CNW's system steam locomotive backshop, system passenger car shop, and a large freight car shop.
7. Headquarters. The Chicago and North Western alsway had their headquarters in downtown Chicago, next to North Western Station.
This should be a seven count knockout in anyone's book.
KLurt Hayek
Still, looking back, it's no surprise that it was abandoned. It was seriously hurt by the opening of the Edens and Northwest (now Kennedy) expressways in the late 50's from downtown Chicago into the northern suburbs it served. In commuter territory, it was between two other competing commuter railroads (CNW and MILW). It had more freight than CA&E, but freight was still a small part of its revenues (about 15%), and most of it was the type of freight rapidly being lost to trucks in that era. The intercity service to Milwaukee was very good right to the end. But it was slower than either of its primary competitors (again, CNW and MILW) and most of its equipment wasn't air conditioned. In fact, except for the two 1941 Electroliners, its rolling stock when it was abandoned was between 30-45 years old. The railroad wasn't even covering its operating costs at the end, so there was clearly no prospect of modernizing its fleet.
Keep in mind that commuter service in the present day can't cover its costs even when sharing infrastructure with a heavy freight operation. That pattern was already emerging in North Shore's final days.
Thanks all for the North Shore responses, especially Falcon48.
One of these days I'm going to have to visit the IRM and pay my respects to the Electroliner.
One other rememberance about the North Shore Line. When I was a kid in the 1950's. my parents used to take me downtown pretty often on the 'L' One of the things I found fascinating on the 'L' was what I called the "sailor trains", 'L' trains packed full of sailors. Later on, I learned that these were North Shore trains carrying sailors to and from the Great Lakes naval training station near North Chicago, IL. Apparently, North Shore had some kind of deal with the Navy to haul sailor-trainees on leave.
Falcon48 One other rememberance about the North Shore Line. When I was a kid in the 1950's. my parents used to take me downtown pretty often on the 'L' One of the things I found fascinating on the 'L' was what I called the "sailor trains", 'L' trains packed full of sailors. Later on, I learned that these were North Shore trains carrying sailors to and from the Great Lakes naval training station near North Chicago, IL. Apparently, North Shore had some kind of deal with the Navy to haul sailor-trainees on leave.
later, that business went to the CNW.
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