When I watch locomotives pulling a long train of tank cars, I notice that the very last car in the train is either a boxcar or a grain hopper car.
Is that some sort of safety procedure, i.e., the boxcar or hopper car acting as a buffer in case of a collision?
writesongWhen I watch locomotives pulling a long train of tank cars, I notice that the very last car in the train is either a boxcar or a grain hopper car. Is that some sort of safety procedure, i.e., the boxcar or hopper car acting as a buffer in case of a collision?
Unit trains of HAZMAT (Oil Trains qualify) must have a buffer car between the HAZMAT cars and a occupied locomotive consist or caboose. Even though you may see a unoccupied DPU on the rear - as the trains continue East onto CSX or NS trackage they will have to add manned helpers on several grades that have not had their communications systems upgraded to allow DPU operations. The buffer cars are required by HAZMAT regulations.
In loose car merchandise trains, HAZMAT is required to be buried by 5 cars.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Yes, it is a safety thing. On my carrier it is required for certain hazardous cars to have a buffer car between it and the locomotive or locomotives. The bottom is also protected by having a buffer car on both ends, like you have seen.
If the tanks are non dangerous the buffer you are seeing is not required.
In Canada a buffer is not required on solid trains of dangerous goods and in normal service only one buffer is needed.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
BaltACD writesong When I watch locomotives pulling a long train of tank cars, I notice that the very last car in the train is either a boxcar or a grain hopper car. Is that some sort of safety procedure, i.e., the boxcar or hopper car acting as a buffer in case of a collision? Unit trains of HAZMAT (Oil Trains qualify) must have a buffer car between the HAZMAT cars and a occupied locomotive consist or caboose. Even though you may see a unoccupied DPU on the rear - as the trains continue East onto CSX or NS trackage they will have to add manned helpers on several grades that have not had their communications systems upgraded to allow DPU operations. The buffer cars are required by HAZMAT regulations. In loose car merchandise trains, HAZMAT is required to be buried by 5 cars.
writesong When I watch locomotives pulling a long train of tank cars, I notice that the very last car in the train is either a boxcar or a grain hopper car. Is that some sort of safety procedure, i.e., the boxcar or hopper car acting as a buffer in case of a collision?
On the UP and I think most others, loaded tank cars (those that require buffers) 5 are required between the engines and tank cars IF train length permits. If it doesn't, use all available with a minimum of one. Doesn't matter if it's a unit train or a loose car manifest. The difference is that a manifest freight is likely to have the 5 required cars. Unit trains will be given the minimum needed.
Empty tank cars only require one buffer car between them and the locomotive(s).
If you are seeing this on the Rochelle webcam, those would be empty trains. Often when loaded train go out in DP mode, there will be a single buffer at both ends between the cars and locomotives. That meets the minimum of one requirement for loaded cars. Returning the requirement is for one car. If the train returns in conventional mode there's no reason to switch the car at the rear to the front.
Jeff
traisessive1If the tanks are non dangerous the buffer you are seeing is not required.
As a little observation, empty tank cars that have been used to transport a range of material may continue to be dangerous unless purged or passivated with cleaning or inert atmosphere. I'd think that would apply particularly to cars used to transport 'non-degassed' Bakken crude. It's relatively easy for breached empties to reach mixture criticality and perhaps detonate quickly compared to full cars where the gas volume is comparatively small and the mass of oil can act as a heat sink inside. Granted, that won't produce massive fireballs of visible flame, or the sort of BLEVE that gets media attention, but it may be far more dangerous to train crews or first responders nearby.
jeffhergert BaltACD writesong When I watch locomotives pulling a long train of tank cars, I notice that the very last car in the train is either a boxcar or a grain hopper car. Is that some sort of safety procedure, i.e., the boxcar or hopper car acting as a buffer in case of a collision? Unit trains of HAZMAT (Oil Trains qualify) must have a buffer car between the HAZMAT cars and a occupied locomotive consist or caboose. Even though you may see a unoccupied DPU on the rear - as the trains continue East onto CSX or NS trackage they will have to add manned helpers on several grades that have not had their communications systems upgraded to allow DPU operations. The buffer cars are required by HAZMAT regulations. In loose car merchandise trains, HAZMAT is required to be buried by 5 cars. On the UP and I think most others, loaded tank cars (those that require buffers) 5 are required between the engines and tank cars IF train length permits. If it doesn't, use all available with a minimum of one. Doesn't matter if it's a unit train or a loose car manifest. The difference is that a manifest freight is likely to have the 5 required cars. Unit trains will be given the minimum needed. Empty tank cars only require one buffer car between them and the locomotive(s). If you are seeing this on the Rochelle webcam, those would be empty trains. Often when loaded train go out in DP mode, there will be a single buffer at both ends between the cars and locomotives. That meets the minimum of one requirement for loaded cars. Returning the requirement is for one car. If the train returns in conventional mode there's no reason to switch the car at the rear to the front. Jeff
From experience - when a oil or ethanol train gets to a point where a manned helper is required on the rear end - if there isn't already a buffer car on the rear of the train - it becomes a real PIA to find and place a buffer car on the rear. Flatlanders rarely think of the requirements when the terrain starts to get virtical.
RMEAs a little observation, empty tank cars that have been used to transport a range of material may continue to be dangerous unless purged or passivated with cleaning or inert atmosphere.
Any such vehicle (trucks, trains) containing a hazardous materiel must remain placarded for that hazardous material until it has been rendered inert, as RME notes. The danger goes beyond flammables.
An "empty" chlorine car can be nearly as dangerous as a full one if the tank is breached. The casualties may be limited to those near the car, but they are casualties, nonetheless.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 RME As a little observation, empty tank cars that have been used to transport a range of material may continue to be dangerous unless purged or passivated with cleaning or inert atmosphere. Any such vehicle (trucks, trains) containing a hazardous materiel must remain placarded for that hazardous material until it has been rendered inert, as RME notes. The danger goes beyond flammables. An "empty" chlorine car can be nearly as dangerous as a full one if the tank is breached. The casualties may be limited to those near the car, but they are casualties, nonetheless.
RME As a little observation, empty tank cars that have been used to transport a range of material may continue to be dangerous unless purged or passivated with cleaning or inert atmosphere.
Johnny
About a million years ago, when I was twenty-one years old, penniless and desperate for work, I was sent out on a job by Manpower, Incorporated, a temporary day labor employment agency in Portland, Oregon.
They sent me to a paper mill where I had to climb down inside a railroad tankcar and scrub it clean.
I remember they furnished me with rubber boots, rubber gloves, and a long handled scrub brush, but that's all I can remember.
THe little "devil" in this tale of tank cars is called "RESIDUE". Tree68 is spot-on, generally, any tank car that has held any sort of product that has a 'classification' that requires a placcarding, is generally, NEVER considered to be EMPTY on its return trip.
Hazardous Products are required to be placcarded in both directions.
RME is absolutely correct in his statement :"...empty tank cars that have been used to transport a range of material may continue to be dangerous unless purged or passivated with cleaning or inert atmosphere..."
In many cases the "cleaning" is specific, to a product type, and may also reqiure a specific note of that certified cleaning (A Bond?)by a facility that is so certified. Such a process can be expen$ive. That is a rationale for returning 'empty tanks back for a reload of the same product.
In High School, I worked in an edible oil refinery, we were equipped to do an industrial, clean wash out of incoming crude product oil ( heavy residues were present and precipitated out in transit.) The tanks had to be clean, to be reloaded with refined cooking oils. And on some of them, the inspection was required to be done by a local Rabbi (who was on contract for those inspections) in order to be used in Kosher labeled products.
Having worked in a tar paper plant (almost identical to a paper mill) for exactly one day, I would opine that cleaning out a tank car was probably a better job than anything else they could have thrown at you.
writesongI remember they furnished me with rubber boots, rubber gloves, and a long handled scrub brush, but that's all I can remember.
Nowadays there'd probably be a respirator and some sort of ventilation system involved... Not to mention permits and certifications...
tree68 writesong I remember they furnished me with rubber boots, rubber gloves, and a long handled scrub brush, but that's all I can remember. Nowadays there'd probably be a respirator and some sort of ventilation system involved... Not to mention permits and certifications...
writesong I remember they furnished me with rubber boots, rubber gloves, and a long handled scrub brush, but that's all I can remember.
I shuddered a bit when I read about cleaning a tank car. About two years ago it was in the news that a couple of workers lost their lives when cleaning a tank car, and there have also been reports of it happening in barges in the past.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
BaltACD jeffhergert BaltACD writesong When I watch locomotives pulling a long train of tank cars, I notice that the very last car in the train is either a boxcar or a grain hopper car. Is that some sort of safety procedure, i.e., the boxcar or hopper car acting as a buffer in case of a collision? Unit trains of HAZMAT (Oil Trains qualify) must have a buffer car between the HAZMAT cars and a occupied locomotive consist or caboose. Even though you may see a unoccupied DPU on the rear - as the trains continue East onto CSX or NS trackage they will have to add manned helpers on several grades that have not had their communications systems upgraded to allow DPU operations. The buffer cars are required by HAZMAT regulations. In loose car merchandise trains, HAZMAT is required to be buried by 5 cars. On the UP and I think most others, loaded tank cars (those that require buffers) 5 are required between the engines and tank cars IF train length permits. If it doesn't, use all available with a minimum of one. Doesn't matter if it's a unit train or a loose car manifest. The difference is that a manifest freight is likely to have the 5 required cars. Unit trains will be given the minimum needed. Empty tank cars only require one buffer car between them and the locomotive(s). If you are seeing this on the Rochelle webcam, those would be empty trains. Often when loaded train go out in DP mode, there will be a single buffer at both ends between the cars and locomotives. That meets the minimum of one requirement for loaded cars. Returning the requirement is for one car. If the train returns in conventional mode there's no reason to switch the car at the rear to the front. Jeff From experience - when a oil or ethanol train gets to a point where a manned helper is required on the rear end - if there isn't already a buffer car on the rear of the train - it becomes a real PIA to find and place a buffer car on the rear. Flatlanders rarely think of the requirements when the terrain starts to get virtical.
I agree. I cringe when the last car on any train, manifest or unit train, is a car that requires a buffer. We have one severe hill (Blair) where trains have stalled and required a push. When that last car needs a buffer (which has happened) it does become a PITA. However under our rules, and I thought they mirror the FRA requirements, if you have 5 cars available that can be used as buffers (on a conventional train) you have to satisfy that requirement before you could leave one on the rear end.
I've had a unit ethanol train (conventional, nonDPU) where the computer, even after going by AEI readers, kept showing a buffer car on the rear end. We received the train from the crew that pulled and assembled the train. We had their hand written list and verbal information as to what cars were where. We still had to visually verify that the rear car wasn't a buffer car. Actually, the dispatcher told us we were going to switch the rear car forward. They kept believeing what the computer was showing, not what we were telling them.
jeffhergert BaltACD jeffhergert BaltACD writesong When I watch locomotives pulling a long train of tank cars, I notice that the very last car in the train is either a boxcar or a grain hopper car. Is that some sort of safety procedure, i.e., the boxcar or hopper car acting as a buffer in case of a collision? Unit trains of HAZMAT (Oil Trains qualify) must have a buffer car between the HAZMAT cars and a occupied locomotive consist or caboose. Even though you may see a unoccupied DPU on the rear - as the trains continue East onto CSX or NS trackage they will have to add manned helpers on several grades that have not had their communications systems upgraded to allow DPU operations. The buffer cars are required by HAZMAT regulations. In loose car merchandise trains, HAZMAT is required to be buried by 5 cars. On the UP and I think most others, loaded tank cars (those that require buffers) 5 are required between the engines and tank cars IF train length permits. If it doesn't, use all available with a minimum of one. Doesn't matter if it's a unit train or a loose car manifest. The difference is that a manifest freight is likely to have the 5 required cars. Unit trains will be given the minimum needed. Empty tank cars only require one buffer car between them and the locomotive(s). If you are seeing this on the Rochelle webcam, those would be empty trains. Often when loaded train go out in DP mode, there will be a single buffer at both ends between the cars and locomotives. That meets the minimum of one requirement for loaded cars. Returning the requirement is for one car. If the train returns in conventional mode there's no reason to switch the car at the rear to the front. Jeff From experience - when a oil or ethanol train gets to a point where a manned helper is required on the rear end - if there isn't already a buffer car on the rear of the train - it becomes a real PIA to find and place a buffer car on the rear. Flatlanders rarely think of the requirements when the terrain starts to get virtical. I agree. I cringe when the last car on any train, manifest or unit train, is a car that requires a buffer. We have one severe hill (Blair) where trains have stalled and required a push. When that last car needs a buffer (which has happened) it does become a PITA. However under our rules, and I thought they mirror the FRA requirements, if you have 5 cars available that can be used as buffers (on a conventional train) you have to satisfy that requirement before you could leave one on the rear end. I've had a unit ethanol train (conventional, nonDPU) where the computer, even after going by AEI readers, kept showing a buffer car on the rear end. We received the train from the crew that pulled and assembled the train. We had their hand written list and verbal information as to what cars were where. We still had to visually verify that the rear car wasn't a buffer car. Actually, the dispatcher told us we were going to switch the rear car forward. They kept believeing what the computer was showing, not what we were telling them. Jeff
Location where helpers are added exists to switch auto racks in the current operating plan - auto racks are not suitable cars to be used as buffers for shoving HAZMAT - coming up with suitable buffers can be a problem - normal buffers are covered hoppers loaded with sand - empty cars, while not restricted by rule are not suitable for shoving a loaded bulk commodity HAZMAT train. Our bigger problems are not with HAZMAT bulk commodity trains but with scheduled merchandise trains built in the flatlands with a HAZMAT rear end - 12K feet & 17K tons
RME traisessive1 If the tanks are non dangerous the buffer you are seeing is not required. As a little observation, empty tank cars that have been used to transport a range of material may continue to be dangerous unless purged or passivated with cleaning or inert atmosphere. I'd think that would apply particularly to cars used to transport 'non-degassed' Bakken crude. It's relatively easy for breached empties to reach mixture criticality and perhaps detonate quickly compared to full cars where the gas volume is comparatively small and the mass of oil can act as a heat sink inside. Granted, that won't produce massive fireballs of visible flame, or the sort of BLEVE that gets media attention, but it may be far more dangerous to train crews or first responders nearby.
traisessive1 If the tanks are non dangerous the buffer you are seeing is not required.
Not everything loaded in a tank car is hazardous. Not all hazardous materials in tank cars require buffers.
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