I also find interesting the comparison between CN and CP. CN is doing very well indeed, quite a few years after EHH left, by changing their culture to become more customer friendly. That is not necessarily a simple task after enduring the EHH reign, since the attitudes of his brainwashed managers left behind have to be adjusted. Railroads need volume to thrive over the long term, and CN has been successful in luring it away from the EHH-style CP.
A few years ago a friend who worked for CN remarked that EHH makes a great COO but needs to work under a CEO to keep him in check. I saw in one of the recent posts (not sure what forum) somebody else had the same opinion.
John
The Hunter Harrison effect is still causing CN some headaches. A GM plant near me is going to build new models. Wishful thinking on a local forum says CN would like to get the business of hauling the new models. CN, under Harrison, left such a bad taste in GM's mouth they may have to really kiss some backside to regain the lost business.
Norm
EHH's attitude toward the customers seems to be like that of John Cleese's character in "Fawlty Towers", "This would be a great hotel if it wasn't for the guests."
CSX core value has been
'It starts with the customer!'
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
EHH can be summed up like this. I come in declare all branch lines excess underused 2nd mains excess sell everything that is not used daily lower my costs and then when the mains plug up start blaming the operations people for not doing their jobs right. Sorry we just hired a old EJ&E locomotive shop foreman to run our maintance department. When I told him what he had at his disposal to keep the fleet running he looked at me and said I was trying to keep Locomotives running with 1/4 of the supplies you have in Stock. If I failed to replair them in time I got a personal email from EHH saying I was a bad manager.
Very interesting discussion so far. Following on Shadow the Cats owner's comments, it would be interesting to hear some thoughts about what some experts who are familiar with the EHH pattern would think about what he might take the axe to at CSX if he gets installed as CEO.
One general question for the forum - was EHH at IC during the time period when they took the Mainline of Mid-America down from double track to one main track with passing sidings?
Then, in regards to CSX, I know they operate double track from Chicago through Greenwich, OH to Cleveland and thence Selkirk, NY, and I believe the former B&O from Greenwhich, OH through Akron, Pittsburgh and over Sand Patch to Baltimore is also double track. Does the forum feel like any of those segments would be reduced to single track?
Is the RF&P/ACL from Washington to Jacksonville, FL mostly double track yet, or has that been reduced to single track already?
How much of the former C&O is still double track from Richmond, VA to Cincinnati, OH?
Are there any segments such as the Montreal line or the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis between Nashville and Memphis that the forum thinks he'd consider spinning off to Genessee & Wyoming or Watco?
kgbw49Are there any segments such as ... the Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis between Nashville and Memphis that the forum thinks he'd consider spinning off to Genesee & Wyoming or Watco?
Wouldn't you have to rebuild all the parts of it that were removed after 1957, including the part that's now the Green Line trail?
RME, I was referring to the line between Nashville and Memphis that is still shown as part of the CSX system on their system map below. I thought that was ex-NC&StL but maybe it is another road?
Thanks for any help on that!
I did some research he was the CEO at IC when that happened. He pulled the Newer tracks up that the Federal Government had paid for and saved it for relay rail. It was a Trains magazine article in the 90's I looked at my husbands back issues.
kgbw49: I'll try to help with the NC&StL East out of Memphis {From memory, so bear with me!]
The NC&Stl was abandoned East from Memphis to Jackson,Tn. [IIRC in,about 1965]. It was done by the L&N (CSX?) on it's aquisition. I believe it was done to resolve issues with parallel lines (?). The line ran from basicly the Leawood Yard area lasted into the current century; it stub-ended at a location known as LENOW, where there had been a some industrial activities. For some time there had been speculation that that section of line might become a tracked route for the Memphis Transit Authorities to operate its' street cars on(?). The line was never used for that and was lifted after 2000. ( It had originally tied into the ICRR's Riverfront line North of Central Station and Downtown area, and was a route to get trains to Leawood Yard and out of town; St.Jude Hospital was built directly on that ROW.)
The Line East from Lenow to Somervile, Whiteville and on to Jackson,Tn was lifted in the 1970s. Currently, there is an NC&Stl Museum in the Jackson,Tn, area. I have not been there, but I think Mac (PWRMN) once mentioned he had been there for a visit. .
Thanks, all! CSX must have another line or combination of lines connecting Memphis and Nashville, and who knows if they still will, though, if EHH gets on board.
kgbw49 One general question for the forum - was EHH at IC during the time period when they took the Mainline of Mid-America down from double track to one main track with passing sidings?
Nope, it was Ed Moyer. Hunter was Moyer's replacement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_L._Moyers
"One of the more controversial projects Moyers took on as president of Illinois Central was to reduce the railroad's trackage from a completely double tracked line with ABS to a single track mainline with CTC signals.[11][13] This project began in May 1989 and was completed on August 28, 1991.[14] The scrap materials removed from the single-tracking project were sold for approximately $50 million and further reduced the railroad's supply budget by $70 million; installing CTC was estimated to save the railroad about $100 million."
As an aside, as a dispatcher give me single track CTC with properly placed sidings of sufficient length any day of the week over 2MT ABS.
An "expensive model collector"
samfp1943 kgbw49: I'll try to help with the NC&StL East out of Memphis {From memory, so bear with me!] The NC&Stl was abandoned East from Memphis to Jackson,Tn. [IIRC in,about 1965]. It was done by the L&N (CSX?) on it's aquisition. I believe it was done to resolve issues with parallel lines (?). The line ran from basicly the Leawood Yard area lasted into the current century; it stub-ended at a location known as LENOW, where there had been a some industrial activities. For some time there had been speculation that that section of line might become a tracked route for the Memphis Transit Authorities to operate its' street cars on(?). The line was never used for that and was lifted after 2000. ( It had originally tied into the ICRR's Riverfront line North of Central Station and Downtown area, and was a route to get trains to Leawood Yard and out of town; St.Jude Hospital was built directly on that ROW.) The Line East from Lenow to Somervile, Whiteville and on to Jackson,Tn was lifted in the 1970s. Currently, there is an NC&Stl Museum in the Jackson,Tn, area. I have not been there, but I think Mac (PWRMN) once mentioned he had been there for a visit. .
I was not astounded when the NC's Jackson-Memphis line was abandoned.
Johnny
The current Nashville-Memphis line is NC to McKenzie and thence L&N to Memphis, running on its own track (as far as I can tell from the SPV Atlas) to Aulon.
Thanks so much!
kgbw49 ... Then, in regards to CSX, I know they operate double track from Chicago through Greenwich, OH to Cleveland and thence Selkirk, NY, and I believe the former B&O from Greenwhich, OH through Akron, Pittsburgh and over Sand Patch to Baltimore is also double track. Does the forum feel like any of those segments would be reduced to single track? ...
...
I railfanned some of the ex-P&LE line that CSX now uses on that line, and it is single track (down from 4 track in the P&LE classic era). Since the CSX west of Greenwich was single tracked prior to the Conrail split, I presume most of that ex-B&O line east of Greenwich was single track also.
samfp1943The line ran from basicly the Leawood Yard area lasted into the current century; it stub-ended at a location known as LENOW, where there had been a some industrial activities.
Perhaps a better way to express this is that this part of the ex-NC&StL ran from the 'connection' with the IC freight line (roughly where Walnut Grove Road ends) east to the Lenow ROAD area in Cordova, where TVA has a considerable substation (the last item transported on the line before it was abandoned was a large transformer; I suspect the ability to move large electrical components was a major part of the reason this line was maintained as long as it was).
The line west of the 'IC connection' was largely abandoned; it notably crossed a major intersection (Central and East Parkway) from corner to corner on an overhead bridge (!) - it is now almost impossible to imagine that structure was ever there. One bridge has rather famously been preserved as a Cooper-Young neighborhood 'art project' a couple of blocks west, and parts of the ROW can still be traced.
MidlandMike kgbw49 ... Then, in regards to CSX, I know they operate double track from Chicago through Greenwich, OH to Cleveland and thence Selkirk, NY, and I believe the former B&O from Greenwhich, OH through Akron, Pittsburgh and over Sand Patch to Baltimore is also double track. Does the forum feel like any of those segments would be reduced to single track? ... I railfanned some of the ex-P&LE line that CSX now uses on that line, and it is single track (down from 4 track in the P&LE classic era). Since the CSX west of Greenwich was single tracked prior to the Conrail split, I presume most of that ex-B&O line east of Greenwich was single track also.
Greenwich to New Castle is double track (with a lot of D251-252 current of traffic signalling) except for a 10 to 12 mile segment between Warwick and Lambert.
This article is in the Wall Street Journal for January 30:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/csx-rail-veteran-in-settlement-talks-1485735855
I am a subscriber so I don't know if it is behind the pay wall or not and apologize if it is and you can't read it.
HH will take the reigns of CSX, no doubts. Will he pursue a merger with CP in due time? Of course. I liked RME's suggestion of Super C's so it's Super C's here we come. We will be down to 2 coast to coast international railroad systems in ten years and lots of little guys feeding in to them. Thats it, can't be stopped now.
I'd be interested in the thoughts of the forum regarding the possible future of these track segments in a "CSH" world:
B&O between Seymour IN and St. Louis, MO
B&O west of Cumberland MD through WV
Clinchfield
All coal branches in KY, VA or WV
Mobile AL to Tallahassee FL
Atlanta GA to Augusta GA
C & O from Cincinnati OH to Newport News VA
Are these on the list for spin off or abandonment?
Are there other track segments that you think may become "CS-ex" or lowered to Class II speeds?
Thank you for any thoughts!
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