So you want a career in sales and want to make big commisions? Dont work for the Railroad!

[Anonymous]

Okay so you think I am dubious source of info for Railroad Industry Info but here goes. Today I talked to Ken Burns of Guilford Railroad on the possibility of moving yachts by rail. Very nice guy despite Guilfords reputation as being hard nosed. I was doing some work on the behalf of Phin Spraugue of Portland Yacht Services.([e-mail]). The question was on dementional loads.NS is looking to move John Deere Tractors in and out of New England Ken Burns told me and they were looking for loads going back on there Flatcars.
He put me In touch with a Kelly Avery([e-mail]) who was a very nice southern belle with a cute accent. She gave me her dementions (for moving freight ). 17ft high by 13 feet with clearence and 86 six feet long max length.
Somewhere in the conversation I brought up sales and our experances working sales.
"So how does NS compinsate there sales people who meet there sales goals? Do they get Commisions? Dont they give out vacations to Mexico and the Islands? Do you get big bonuses at the end of the year?"

Kelly responed with a sigh "No we are just doing our job and meet our performence reveiws each year". Now trucking companys pay there brokers fees and freight forwarders pay there sales people commsions and bonuses for landing new accounts. Paying and rewarding sales people a commision for
landing new buisness and expanding and servicing existing cliants is standard.
Everyone knows Bernie Lowman in "Death Of A Salesman" "I am there New England Man". The salesman was the last cowboy alone in his terrotory making cold calls and peddling his wares to complete strangers and staying in roadside motels on Route 66. The More diffcult to pu***he product to higher the finders fee to place the service or product. They are still out there are they not? With the Internet and Cell Phones maybe maybe not.
From what I hear only the largest accounts get taken out to dinner anymore. In the old days it was not uncommon for a railroad sales person to stick his head into the office of a mom & pop lumber yard to see how they are doing. No More.
So my point is this....................................................................................
How can the Class One railroads(NS-CSX-UP-BNSF) get there sales employees motivated when they dont pay them commisions to sell a hard to place product(Railroad transportation) in a very competive market when they dont reward them when they do there job? If I was a sales manager or Executive Headhunter that placed people in well paid sales jobs with large bonuses and market commisions I would pick Norfolk Southern Clean of everyone that had 3 or more years with them. What Collage gradute BA or MBA in there right mind would want to work for the railroad? At least Train Engineers get paid more if they work more miles on the extra board

[Junctionfan]

My aunt worked at a large advertising company in Toronto as a copywriter and worked on campaigns like Coca-Cola and came up with her own advertising campaigns like the Air-Thief. I don't recall her ever getting too many bonus except at Christmas for doing her job as described in the job description.

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

...it's not really a good time for the sales people do bring this kind of an issue up right now anyway, seems to me that most railways have way more business than they want at the current moment.

...perhaps incentives for the sales people that can get the most goods to ship on other railways..... [:)]

[MP173]

Cleveland:

I agree. What is the incentive to sell, if you dont see anything come back to you?

Regarding the wining and dining...that is pretty much past in most sales jobs. Entertainment expenditures have really been cut, which is fine by me, I perhaps take someone out to lunch 6-10 times a year, if that. Buyers dont expect it and quite a few corporations will not allow their people to accept gifts, including lunches, dinners, etc. I even had one situation where the customer had to buy the meal, so he would not have to report he received a freebie.

Macguy sort of hit it too, what incentives are there for new business. Mark had a column on that not too long ago. It would be frustrating selling something that couldnt be delivered.

ed

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by macguy

...it's not really a good time for the sales people do bring this kind of an issue up right now anyway, seems to me that most railways have way more business than they want at the current moment.

...perhaps incentives for the sales people that can get the most goods to ship on other railways..... [:)]

That is exactly what seems to happen with lots of companies, railroad or other...when times are good they treat their sales people like dirt but when times get tough they really look to the sales team to bail them out. As a professional sales person I sure would like to be respected ALL OF THE TIME for the contribution we make to our respective companies. Wow, that felt good!

[Anonymous]

Its good to have a intleigent conversation here for once[:)]. The issues regarding capasity are intresting and railroads can do more to squeeze more capasity out of there exsiting infrastucture. I always thought that railroads could alway have more capasity then our nations highways especialy on Interstate 90 between NY and Chicago and I-95 Portland ME to Florida. I was having coffee at a truck stop and truckload after truckload of potatoes was pulling in hauled by Somalies who have found work as truck drivers. The Potatoes were coming from Lewiston ME. Say did not all that traffic used to be hauled by Bangor and Aroostook? Without a incentive for railroad salespeople there is no reason to beat the bushes for traffic. Now does some of this come from the fact that the railroads still think of themselves as a monopoly?

[jeaton]

As far as I know, railroad sales reps were always salaried, however 3rd party operations, the people who solicit and set up a good portion of the intermodal business frequently pay on a straight commision basis.

Many sales people prefer a combination of both, but in any case, good sales people first seek to do the deal, then tally up the pay.

Jay

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Clevelandrocks

Its good to have a intleigent conversation here for once[:)]. The issues regarding capasity are intresting and railroads can do more to squeeze more capasity out of there exsiting infrastucture. I always thought that railroads could alway have more capasity then our nations highways especialy on Interstate 90 between NY and Chicago and I-95 Portland ME to Florida. I was having coffee at a truck stop and truckload after truckload of potatoes was pulling in hauled by Somalies who have found work as truck drivers. The Potatoes were coming from Lewiston ME. Say did not all that traffic used to be hauled by Bangor and Aroostook? Without a incentive for railroad salespeople there is no reason to beat the bushes for traffic. Now does some of this come from the fact that the railroads still think of themselves as a monopoly?

FOFLMAO.

1. Intelligent not "intleigent"

2. Capacity not "capasity"

3. Interesting not "intresting"

4. Somalis not "Somalies"

A little better attention to your spelling might make you sound intelligent. Then again, perhaps not.

Railroad traffic rarely moves based strictly upon sales and increasing sales incentives in the railroad business has been abandoned by most railroads as it tends to result in a lot of low revenue traffic being put on the rails to generate commissions, which does little to create real profits.

LC

[bobwilcox]

Some railroads pay a bonus in cash, stock and/or options if the person meets their objectives. In the case of a high performance salesmen your looking at $6-7,000 per year in cash before stock and options.

[MP173]

Hey Limited Clear:

This is a fairly intelligent discussion. But, thanks for your 2 cents worth. I have my dictionary on the shelf and will attempt to use it a little more.

Sales functions for railroads have probably gone to third parties. Anything needing any marketing function at all is in the hands of the intermodal brokers and the trucklines.

Lets face it, railroads have tracks in place and run a train. Their attitude (generally) is either get on the train or stay off. Shortlines seem to understand the concept of marketing and service and often traffic increases.

The above mentioned brokers and trucklines know and understand the flow of materials. They offer the flexibility, knowledge, and capacity for moving the freight. It is easier today for railroads to be operators rather than suppliers.

Growth in the rails markets will generally be what intermodal will give them, plus the GNP growth.

ed

[Junctionfan]

I always thought that their kind of work was on salary and not commission.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

Hey Limited Clear:

This is a fairly intelligent discussion. But, thanks for your 2 cents worth. I have my dictionary on the shelf and will attempt to use it a little more.

Sales functions for railroads have probably gone to third parties. Anything needing any marketing function at all is in the hands of the intermodal brokers and the trucklines.

Lets face it, railroads have tracks in place and run a train. Their attitude (generally) is either get on the train or stay off. Shortlines seem to understand the concept of marketing and service and often traffic increases.

The above mentioned brokers and trucklines know and understand the flow of materials. They offer the flexibility, knowledge, and capacity for moving the freight. It is easier today for railroads to be operators rather than suppliers.

Growth in the rails markets will generally be what intermodal will give them, plus the GNP growth.

ed

Ed-

Perhaps. But that is not what I see in the RR business. There are still quite a number of railroad sales offices located in major cities and representatives that call on customers. I know that NS, CSX and KCS still have sales forces and I assume the other majors do as well. Certainly there are plenty of intermodal marketing organizations out there and railroads certainly work with them but that is far from the whole picture.

LC

[railman]

I consider myself a pretty good student of internet jargon, but LC, what is:
"FOFLMAO" ?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railman

I consider myself a pretty good student of internet jargon, but LC, what is:
"FOFLMAO" ?

Falling on Floor Laughing my *** off.

[MP173]

Oh, I know that the majors have "sales offices". But, I do not think they are motivated by their organization to develope new business. I do not know this for sure, as I have no contact with such sales people.

Who I do have contact with are several very large rail shippers who are also my customers. In my conversations with them, they consider their company's business as captive and the railroads as very unresponsive.

It must be very disheartening to work in sales for an industry which does not place a premium on serving their customers.

ed

[Anonymous]

I remember reading in Trains or Railfan and Railroad about UP having sales people driving around in station wagons with UP logos on them checking up on customers. I also talked to a CN clerk on the phone who was lamenting the days when every town had a freight agent and local buisneses called a local number to talk with a live person who lived in the area who in all likelyhood had gone to churh together and had the same little leage team. As far as outsourcing goes Railroads DONT PAY COMMISION. So it was a mystery to me as how are people who are "travel agents for freight" get paid?? Finally after many moons of work on this I found out. "Freight Forwarders" Or "Travel Agents for Freight" buy futures contracts on loads on trucks and trains. They have a contract with Wal-Mart and another one with K-mart and maybe another one with Sears and buy spaces on LTL ,Truck,Ship and Train in 100 car lots and get the discount and then sell wholesale retail.(If i am wrong here please help me out here). All this must sound preety risky along the lines of Enron.The problem here is that often is that Railroads are the mode of last resort when truck drivers are hard to come by which oddly enough happens every so often. Railroads also have economy of scale were they might be able to get a lower bid by there shear size