Learning from the Cows (Free Energy -- w/ Photo)

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

erikem

Paul,

Your estimates for PV panel area seem reasonable, 16W/sq-ft is what you would get at local noon assuming a reasonably clear day. This works out to be about 1.5 acres per peak MW - PV takes up a lot of surface area, which is why I prefer talk of rooftop solar versus solar farms.

As for economics, the cost for for the bare PV cells is low enough that the main driver is all of ancillary stuff, mounting and support hardware, inverters, etc.

One other gotcha with solar is that in many areas, the peak demand occurs around or after sunset.

 - Erik

As usual, eminently logical and thoughtful comments.

Re: Rooftop vs. farms: What's funny is to see the vegetation - often weeds - that grows between the rows of panels.  Perhaps that's the purpose of the cows in K.P.'s photo in his Original Post ?  I've read of sheep and goats also being used to keep that under control.

One other advantage of rooftop is that it doesn't add impervious area as do the farms, thereby not having any added effect on stormwater runoff quantities and quality, etc.

Railroads might have better management to control peak demand, but the trains can't wait for noon.  Some kind of storage is inevitable.  Aside from 'exotic' methods such as large-scale batteries, flywheels, and capacitors, there's the tried-and-true method of pumped storage.  It's even got railroad heritage - I believe the Milwaukee Road used it at some places of the electrification of its Pacific Coast Extension.

- Paul North.

[WM7471]

RME

What, for example, would 'national standards' be in this context?  

The "standards" that I had in mind are much more basic. There are to the best of my knowledge no existing agreements or "standards" concerning electrification of freight railroads in North America. AAR has none that I know of, neither does USDOT.  I am referring to the form of electric power.  

When Conrail pulled the plug on electric freight operations 35 years ago the defacto standard was the former PRR 11kV - 25 Hz AC.  Since then Amtrak has used 25kV - 60 Hz for new construction.  I simply think that before any major electrification projects start a "Standard" should be agreed on by the North American railroads for new construction.  The logical choices would seem to be either 25kV - 60 Hz or 50kV - 60 Hz, but there may be others.

A decision made before construction would help eliminate the situation that now exists in Europe where a variety of modes from 750 volts DC to 25 kV - 50 Hz AC exist. 

There should also be an agreement on clearances.  To the best of my knowledge there is no current AAR "Plate" standard for double stacks to clear caternary wire, perhaps there should be one... before any construction.

While I agree with you RME, that ECP brakes would be more beneficial, the FRA will not make that decision, Congress will.  ECP can be touted as a safety factor, but saving the environment by electrifying the railroads and saving all that oil, will offer much more "6PM News face time" for members of Congress.  I would just like to see the railroads ahead of the curve on this one.  

 

 

 

 

[BaltACD]

Before ever thinking about electricifying, the carriers need to finish digesting and implementing the PTC unfunded mandate.  Next up, unless the Feds get shut down by the industry will be the ECP unfunded mandate. 

How many more unfunded mandates can the industry survive?

[kgbw49]

Before electrification, i will bet on LNG or some form of Natural Gas happening first and will be utilized for decades. World oil prices will rise when the US economy starts flying faster than barely above stall speed, because if allowed to be, we are still an economic engine for the globe. As that all plays out the economics of LNG will come back in to play.