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NTSB: Reduce Fatigue-Related Accidents

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, March 24, 2016 9:13 PM

BaltACD
When it comes to asking 'the Feds' for 'quality of life' rules to be put in place; be careful what you ask for.  You may no longer be able to afford a life of quality. The HOS regulations that were enacted at the instigation of the Brotherhoods a couple of years ago decreased T&E earnings potential by about 26%.  Once one factors additional rest required of 'limbo time' the earnings potential is decreased even further.

Dead men don't have any quality of life. Or any earnings to worry about. Get a good rest, they do. So, to paraphrase the comercial,  "STAY RESTED MY FRIEND".

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, March 25, 2016 4:53 AM

Answering a personal request by a general paper, while I am still in my quota of free reprints without violating copyright, those wishing the auto entertainment JASA paper can contact me at

daveklepper@yahoo.com

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Posted by misfit on Monday, March 28, 2016 11:31 PM
Shoosh don't go giving management any ideas.
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 29, 2016 12:16 AM

Giving management ideas that benefit both employees and management (and stockholders and the general public) makes sense.  Like permitting audio entertainment under operating conditions that would lead to boardom.

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, March 29, 2016 1:09 AM

daveklepper
Like permitting audio entertainment under operating conditions that would lead to boardom.

I don't know that I'd want to add that audio entertainment to them, but the fire service is a big user (as has been aviation) of noise reduction headsets that include comms.  I know cabs are far better than they once were as far as noise goes, but I'd appreciate such headsets in our old locos.

The idea of adding "other" audio might be a reach.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Sunnyland on Sunday, April 10, 2016 5:13 PM

I thought the government mandated the time any crew could work. When that time was reached, they'd have to stop and wait for a relief crew no matter where they were. So this was a surprise for me to read.   I know I was on Amtrak a few years ago in IL where a bad storm caused huge delays and a derailment ahead of us and signal malfunctions. We sat at Alton, IL.  Buses were sent to relieve the crew, who had "timed out" and had to leave. They also took along those of us who were only going to St. L.  It was the Eagle and everyone else had to stay on.   So that crew was not allowed to work past their time limit.  Maybe it's only on passenger trains, but my understanding was that the government would not allow any crew members, freight or passenger, to work past their "hours".   So not sure what is going on with this, people definitely need sleep and should not be operating trains and other machinery if they are sleep deprived. 

 Or maybe management is not covered by any rules, but crew members are union members and that should definitely make a diff. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, April 10, 2016 6:17 PM

Sunnyland

I thought the government mandated the time any crew could work. When that time was reached, they'd have to stop and wait for a relief crew no matter where they were. So this was a surprise for me to read.   I know I was on Amtrak a few years ago in IL where a bad storm caused huge delays and a derailment ahead of us and signal malfunctions. We sat at Alton, IL.  Buses were sent to relieve the crew, who had "timed out" and had to leave. They also took along those of us who were only going to St. L.  It was the Eagle and everyone else had to stay on.   So that crew was not allowed to work past their time limit.  Maybe it's only on passenger trains, but my understanding was that the government would not allow any crew members, freight or passenger, to work past their "hours".   So not sure what is going on with this, people definitely need sleep and should not be operating trains and other machinery if they are sleep deprived. 

 Or maybe management is not covered by any rules, but crew members are union members and that should definitely make a diff.

Management personnel performing the duties of Hours of Service personnel become covered by the Hours of Service law and all its requirements.  Some company officials 'like to think' the HOS law doesn't apply, they find out differently when the FRA reviews the records and the fines roll in.

Under extenuating circumstance, Company Officials can order a crew to exceed the HOS with the full knowledge that this is a violation and all penalties of the law will be brought to bear upon the company - needless to say this is a very rare occurrence.

The Hours of Service Law applies to all crews and/or personnel to which it applies, Passenger, Freight, Short Lines, etc.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, April 10, 2016 6:21 PM

BaltACD
The Hours of Service Law applies to all crews and/or personnel to which it applies, Passenger, Freight, Short Lines, etc.

Including tourist lines...

LarryWhistling
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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, April 10, 2016 7:47 PM

tree68
BaltACD

Including tourist lines...

If part of the Tourist operation in anyway includes receiving/delivering cars in interchange freight operations - YES; if there is no connection with national rail system - I don't know.  I would suggest having the Officials of such tourist operations confer with the FRA for a definative ruling.

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, April 10, 2016 7:55 PM

BaltACD
if there is no connection with national rail system - I don't know. 

Actually, you're dead on.  We run over rails that do connect to the national system - in fact we run as a tenant on a short line for part of our trips.  Thus we're under FRA rules.

In talking with the folks at Greenfield Village a couple of years ago - I don't think they're under FRA rules, although the track does connect with the national system.  I think they said that there was enough isolation that they were exempt.

And I know of a NYS tourist line that is apparently disconnected, as they tend to be a little looser...

We occasionally run into HOS issues, but most of our runs are well within the 12 hour limit, and if they go that long, there is usually an opportunity to go off duty for a period.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, April 10, 2016 7:57 PM

HOS  rules for airline pilots are much more reasonable.  For domestic trips and most international as long as the airplane can land at its destination in the scheduled time the plane can depart the originating station no matter what enroute delays happen later.  As well after landing can taxi to gate no matter how long it takes.

Flight time ( gate to gate )  come under separate guidelines but  still if enroute overtime can still go to gate at destination. 

Ground service persons under HOS much more restricted

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, April 10, 2016 8:00 PM

tree68

We occasionally run into HOS issues, but most of our runs are well within the 12 hour limit, and if they go that long, there is usually an opportunity to go off duty for a period.

HOS Law requires that the off duty period be 4 hours or more to create a break in the HOS period, if the break is less than 4 hours then all time is continuous from the original on duty time.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, April 11, 2016 1:15 AM

tree68
 
BaltACD
if there is no connection with national rail system - I don't know. 

 

Actually, you're dead on.  We run over rails that do connect to the national system - in fact we run as a tenant on a short line for part of our trips.  Thus we're under FRA rules.

In talking with the folks at Greenfield Village a couple of years ago - I don't think they're under FRA rules, although the track does connect with the national system.  I think they said that there was enough isolation that they were exempt.

And I know of a NYS tourist line that is apparently disconnected, as they tend to be a little looser...

We occasionally run into HOS issues, but most of our runs are well within the 12 hour limit, and if they go that long, there is usually an opportunity to go off duty for a period.

 

Second that about being connected to the general railroad system.  Some years ago, the Boone and Scenic Valley was having some issue.  They pulled up a rail on the track that connected with the UP, thinking that severed their "relationship" to the national railroad system.  It didn't.

Jeff

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