Railroad Radio&Railfan Scanning!

[Anonymous]

I already know that the Scanner has been a very usefull tool for alot of Railfans across this Country but my biggest Question is this...
"IF" the Railroads "DO" shift to the GIGA Herts Frequency range like trains mentioned over 10 years ago-That's if it ever happends! Will Railfans still be able to buy a scanner off the merket that can monitor the RR band?
By the way. Will the Railroads continue to use the AAR 160 to 161mhz Band for years to come?

[Anonymous]

I'm sure if they were to switch, a scanner would come out soon enough that everyone could listen in.

If the waves are out there, there's gonna be someone who knows how to listen in.

RRs switching to the GHz frequency is news to me.

[AlcoRS11Nut]

I never heard anything about that.

[richardy]

I had not heard anything about a change. The range in the GHz band would be much shorter and require more base stations, it does not make sense for long distance communications except to a satellite, point to point towers or for a small area operator.

Anyway, there are already GHz scanners, they are professional and very expensive but I'm sure Uniden would start building an economy version if the market would support the product.

[dwil89]

Yeah..I've read several articles about the possibility of railroads changing over to a new system....however, it would require alot of time, effort and money to convert the exisiting equipment over to the new system....all the base stations, radios in thousands of locomotives would have to be upgraded.....I wouldn't see any change for some time to come. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

[tree68]

As I hear it, the move is already afoot to change to narrowband VHF-FM, which will double the number of channels available in the current RR band. It's possible that many of the newer RR radios in use are already capable, as are many scanners. As the AAR frequencies are configured today, the channels are 15 Khz apart (160.800, 160.815, 160.830, etc). In narrowband, they will be 7.5 Khz apart (160.800, 160.8075, 160.815, etc). Most likely the new, in-between channels will be numbered in the 200's or something like that.

richardy's comments on range, etc, are right on. Even the 400 MHz freqs used by EOT's would be of limited usefulness for day-to-day voice communications in today's RR world.

For basic voice communications in the RR environment, it's hard to do better that the KISS equipment now in use, without a substantial investment. While some major terminals may have some frequency congestion, most of the country really has spectrum to spare.

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

As I hear it, the move is already afoot to change to narrowband VHF-FM, which will double the number of channels available in the current RR band. It's possible that many of the newer RR radios in use are already capable, as are many scanners. As the AAR frequencies are configured today, the channels are 15 Khz apart (160.800, 160.815, 160.830, etc). In narrowband, they will be 7.5 Khz apart (160.800, 160.8075, 160.815, etc). Most likely the new, in-between channels will be numbered in the 200's or something like that.

For basic voice communications in the RR environment, it's hard to do better that the KISS equipment now in use, without a substantial investment. While some major terminals may have some frequency congestion, most of the country really has spectrum to spare.

I just checked the current FCC rules and there is not an allocation of frequencies in the GHz band for the railroad train communication radio service. The 7.5 KHz frequency inserts that Larry mentioned are in the current rules.

There is a small GHz band of frequencies for development applications on a shared basis with all of the other users in the Business/Industrial services. The railroads could apply for a development license, for a very limited area, to use some of these frequencies to prove the band will work. This whole band is less spectrum than the current railroad VHF allocation, it is for developement only. For the railroad to use GHz spectrum on a permanent basis they would have to petition the FCC for a rulemaking for the spectrum they propose to use.

Spectrum is in short supply and many years ago, with a flood of users petitioning spectrum, the FCC discovered they can make big money by selling spectrum. Not just a few dollars but tens of millions of dollars from one allocation rulemaking. When the millions of dollars paid to the FCC are added to the costs for equipment that Larry and I have mentioned in earlier posts it does not make sense. I think your VHF scanners are safe if they are able to receive the 7.5 KHz splits.

[halifaxcn]

The split to the 7.5 Khz was conducted in all spectrums several years ago to free up more channels for land mobile use (local gov't, business, etc.). I believe if my memory is correct the FCC along with Associated Public Safety Communication Officers (APCO) call it "re-farming". The website for APCO www.apcointl.org
has a section frequency coordination that some of you may find interesting.

I believe that a switch to any other band other than the present VHF (very high frequency) would be both an engineering and logistical headache. It would prove to be costly move for any railroad.

Regards

[cnw4001]

Even if the RR's start using the "refarmed" frequencies most scanners currently in use are so broadbanded that they'll receive the 7.5 split frequencies with little, if any problems. The only real problem would be the possibility of hearing two 7.5 channel transmitters at the same time.

Newer scanners will have the 7.5 spacing.

No need to panic.

Dale

[cnw4001]

Even if the RR's start using the "refarmed" frequencies most scanners currently in use are so broadbanded that they'll receive the 7.5 split frequencies with little, if any problems. The only real problem would be the possibility of hearing two 7.5 channel transmitters at the same time.

Newer scanners will have the 7.5 spacing.

No need to panic.

Dale

[DPD1]

When certain industry's start talking about a need for expanding their communications needs... All the vendors start jumping in like a bunch of piranha, trying to develop the most sophisticated, expensive system they can think of to sell to the industry. The same applies for PD, FD, whatever. If you look closely, it's often the PR people behind the companies that release these stories as "news", and try to con everybody into thinking that it's some kind of official statement proclaiming that the xxxxx system will be the next system used in whatever industry. When in reality, all they are doing is trying to make that industry go for it. And since they often times will spend millions of their own money to run test systems, usually the companies feel like they don't have anything to lose, so they give it a try. But it's by no means any guarantee that system will ever actually be put into wide use. The system works fine the way it is now, except for lack of some new channels. Which will be covered in the new channel spacing, effectively doubling the number of channels.

So that's the cheapest way to fix their problem. Anything else would be complete overkill, and waste huge amounts of money. Which is usually a 100% guarantee an industry won't do something. The same thing has been going on with the air band for years... Talks of this fancy system and that fancy system replacing everything. When in reality, we'll probably just do what they did in Europe, and use a more narrow spacing.

FYI, I have the new RR spacing band plan listed on the freqs page of my site below.

Dave
-DPD Productions - Home of the TrainTenna RR Monitoring Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/dpdp/

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

I already know that the Scanner has been a very usefull tool for alot of Railfans across this Country

I am interested in getting a portable scanner. Could anyone give any tips, or recommendations on what I should be looking for in a scanner? (My budget is $100-250)

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dragonslayer87
[I am interested in getting a portable scanner. Could anyone give any tips, or recommendations on what I should be looking for in a scanner? (My budget is $100-250)

Go to this thread

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=22940

[Anonymous]

thanks richardy