EuclidThe attack may have been planned prior to the argument, and the argument set it off; or the attack may have been intended to be carried out regardless of the argument.
Given California's Draconian gun laws, one does not run around town with two Ar-15's and two handguns and plenty of ammunition in the car unless they are planning on doing some serious damage. At this point, it appears to have been planned but the motive remains unclear. Hopefully, the FBI will get to the bottom if it. In the mean time, it would behove those in Washington screaming for more gun control to shut their mouths.
Norm
Phoebe Vet (12-3):
Phoebe Vet At the risk of making this thread about TRAINS, While watching this in progress on TV I saw a fire truck parked across the track.
At the risk of making this thread about TRAINS, While watching this in progress on TV I saw a fire truck parked across the track.
With the live coverage yesterday of the shooting incident aftermath, like you I was surprised to see fire engines and trucks parked on the nearby railroad track. From what I know from insiders, the San Bernardino Fire Dept. totally emptied their stations and sent all their equipment to the shooting site; and in accord with mutual aid agreements in place, the community had to wait for surrounding communities to jockey their equipment so some fire stations were again manned by mutual aid fireman and equipment.
The speed limit on that track, I believe, is 10 M.P.H., so there probably wasn’t any real danger to firemen or their equipment. But, that certainly wasn’t a very good example for the population to see. A few miles away are both the BNSF Transcon and the UP Sunset Route. On those lines a city losing a fire engine or truck would be a costly and embarrassing situation for the city.
It may be because of the railroads’ history of eliminating grade crossings and a new generation of firefighters coming onboard that they may not have the respect for railroads that their ancestors had. Sometimes we as railroaders and / or railfans take for granted the reality of trains. And, that doesn’t bode well for cities whom likely will lose more fire equipment by trains.
Take care,
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
K. P. Harrier Phoebe Vet (12-3): Phoebe Vet At the risk of making this thread about TRAINS, While watching this in progress on TV I saw a fire truck parked across the track. With the live coverage yesterday of the shooting incident aftermath, like you I was surprised to see fire engines and trucks parked on the nearby railroad track. From what I know from insiders, the San Bernardino Fire Dept. totally emptied their stations and sent all their equipment to the shooting site; and in accord with mutual aid agreements in place, the community had to wait for surrounding communities to jockey their equipment so some fire stations were again manned by mutual aid fireman and equipment. The speed limit on that track, I believe, is 10 M.P.H., so there probably wasn’t any real danger to firemen or their equipment. But, that certainly wasn’t a very good example for the population to see. A few miles away are both the BNSF Transcon and the UP Sunset Route. On those lines a city losing a fire engine or truck would be a costly and embarrassing situation for the city. It may be because of the railroads’ history of eliminating grade crossings and a new generation of firefighters coming onboard that they may not have the respect for railroads that their ancestors had. Sometimes we as railroaders and / or railfans take for granted the reality of trains. And, that doesn’t bode well for cities whom likely will lose more fire equipment by trains. Take care, K.P.
Potentially - they notified the track owner to hold traffic on the line. My carrier gets frequent calls from local authorities to hold traffic because of Emergency Perosnnel (Fire & Police) activities.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDPotentially - they notified the track owner to hold traffic on the line. My carrier gets frequent calls from local authorities to hold traffic because of Emergency Perosnnel (Fire & Police) activities.
That's SOP around here - and I preach it to fire officers whenever possible. Our county fire coordinator's home fire department is on the local CSX line, so it's high in his mind when appropriate.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
wanswheel I think it was a combination of preplanned and spur of the moment. Terrorists waiting for the right time and place, suddenly deciding this will do. Perhaps this awfulness is the least worse they might’ve done.
The presence of several pipe bombs in their house along with the discovery they were in contact with local "persons of interest" i.e., persons suspected of contacts with known terrorist groups, leads me to revise my opinion and see this as a terrorist attack.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
County of Los Angeles Fire department lost a new fire engine to UP local going ten miles per. This was about ten yeas ago on the former PE/SP El Segundo CA branch.
A terrorist attack kills 14, injures 21 and the OP is concerned because it happened near a railroad track.
Now that is what you call a narrow minded clown. The railroad had absolutely nothing to do with anything but that was your major focus? Do you think the bereaved families give a *** about how close it was to a rairoad track? You are the perfect definition of a foamer. 14 people die, and you are concerned that it was near a railroad track.
This nation is in trouble, under attack , and you had better get your priorities straight.
tdmidget...OP is concerned because it happened near a railroad track.
Wouldn't be the first post on the forum with only a slim, slim tie to railroading - there have been many instances of an otherwise off-topic thread having only a passing connection to railroading in any form. Such threads usually contain at least on post saying something to the effect of "keeping this rail-oriented..."
I don't think the OP meant to minimize any aspect of the incident. Those of us in fire and EMS are more focused on the response than the carnage. But that doesn't mean we don't care about the victims and their families.
You'll note that there was discussion on how the incident might affect traffic on the line. This is little different from discussing how a major fire might affect traffic on a line.
An Area Visit
The Wednesday, December 2, 2015 mass shooting site, at least close to it on the north side, was visited Saturday. The main roadway artery, Waterman Ave., was still blocked off and the police presence was strong.
It was hoped that Waterman Ave. would have been open, and a photo taken near the tracks (with a crossing gate or gates) and the buildings where the incident took place all in view, but even after several days the scene is still under investigation and cordoned off for blocks.
The scene was more dramatic in person than the above photo suggests. Because of a relatively fast shutter speed, most of the squad car’s flashing lights were off during the split second the shutter captured the scene. Most were on and flashing.
For those that are halfway local, they may be interested to know that the grade crossings in the immediate area had much ballast poured trackside, obviously the first step in rebuilding the line to commuter train standards. The track presently is in a rather deplorable condition, and photos of that were hoped to be taken, but to no avail because of the road closures.
ChessieCat123 tdmidget A terrorist attack kills 14, injures 21 and the OP is concerned because it happened near a railroad track. Now that is what you call a narrow minded clown. The railroad had absolutely nothing to do with anything but that was your major focus? Do you think the bereaved families give a *** about how close it was to a rairoad track? You are the perfect definition of a foamer. 14 people die, and you are concerned that it was near a railroad track. This nation is in trouble, under attack , and you had better get your priorities straight. This matters because operating a railroad thru a police/fire incident is a problem because no bothers to inform the railroad despite having there emergency number posted on the grade crossings.
tdmidget A terrorist attack kills 14, injures 21 and the OP is concerned because it happened near a railroad track. Now that is what you call a narrow minded clown. The railroad had absolutely nothing to do with anything but that was your major focus? Do you think the bereaved families give a *** about how close it was to a rairoad track? You are the perfect definition of a foamer. 14 people die, and you are concerned that it was near a railroad track. This nation is in trouble, under attack , and you had better get your priorities straight.
This matters because operating a railroad thru a police/fire incident is a problem because no bothers to inform the railroad despite having there emergency number posted on the grade crossings.
More times than not, the authorities do notify the railroads. At least in my territory of operations. When railroads are notified - there is no big sign that gets hung up for all to see that the railroad has been notified.
The “Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates” thread has a post about the shoot-out being very near the lodging of trainmen, thus there was a major Sunset Route service disruption because lodging crew were under a lockdown situation.
Find that topic, page 227, the x:32 time on either December 7 or 8 depending on your time zone. The above photo is in that post.
Visiting the Area Saturday, December 12, 2015 …
… with Public Access
Below is the incident area (left background past the left side street, across from the center roadway divider shrubbery), with the Redlands Loop track in the foreground. Redlands is to the left.
Obviously, everything is quiet now.
The grade crossing, among others in the area, is in preparation for redoing, with ballast and ties on site.
Looking inbound:
Outbound:
A final look:
The husband and wife team that shot-up the area and killed 14 had terrorist links. As an American, I find it difficult to comprehend the radicalization process and the warping of the mind to hate their fellowman. I wonder if the initiation process includes a needle injection of crazy juice. Now, that would make sense!
K.P.,
Do you remember the novel "The Manchurian Candidate"? Some people can easily be convinced.
tdmidget terrorist attack kills 14, injures 21 and the OP is concerned because it happened near a railroad track. Now that is what you call a narrow minded clown. The railroad had absolutely nothing to do with anything but that was your major focus? Do you think the bereaved families give a *** about how close it was to a rairoad track? You are the perfect definition of a foamer. 14 people die, and you are concerned that it was near a railroad track.
Gee, I saw the tracks on the news reports, too, and knowing ATSF had a large operation in the town, but not where this took place, wondered the same. Want to insult me, too?
rrnut282Want to insult me, too?
Naw, what's the point. Indiana, I think you've suffered enough already.
K.P. If you contact me at daveklepper@yahoo.com, be glad to attach to my reply the evidence as to why Islam ceased being a relgion of peace, for some, and became a source of terror. It is a long story, but a logical one.
Remember that the Germans had Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schiller, Thomas Mann, the World's 1st University at Heidelberg (with some Jewish merchants contributing!), and yet adopted Naziism. Of course they were pushed in that direction by ruinous terms at Versailles at the end of WWI, by England's winking at the early anti-Semitism as taking blame for problems off their shoulder, and the fact that the Nazis began with the minority Jews, just like Islamic Fundamentalist started - in 1929. After Muslims had invited 70 Jewish families to return to Jerusalem after driving out the European Crusaders, Caliph of Jerusalem at the Jaffa dock to welcome the Jewish refugees from Spanisih Torquamadas inquisitioh, and much else of Jewish-Muslim friendship up to Colonial period.
A related discussion about near the incident sites is in the “Perris Valley Line Updates (w/ Photos)” thread. (See December 19, 2015)
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/214329.aspx?page=16
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