I notice that trains in our area don't have much problem with snow, even where the street department stacks it up 4 to 5 feet high at the crossings. I'm sure it might be different if the rails weren't running through flat corn and bean fields. How much snow can an average freight train go through? Do they bog down in deep snow like a car? If so, then what?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy,
I do not think there is an answer to the question as you asked it.
The usual problem is drifting in cuts especially with dirt mixed in, a lovely concoction known as "snirt". Since the cuts catch drifting snow a six inch snowfall can fill a cut given sustained wind in the wrong direction.
Snow is seldom a problem on the main lines, but if you are down to a train a day or a train a week problems can develop between trains.
The usual main line problem is frozen switches which is why you see all those switch heaters in the Dakotas and Montana.
Temp in Holly Springs MS is 51 degrees at 3:00 PM. You may be green with envy.
Mac McCulloch
Murphy SidingHow much snow can an average freight train go through? Do they bog down in deep snow like a car? If so, then what?
As noted, there really isn't one answer, aside from "it depends..."
Some of it depends on the type of snow. Light, fluffy stuff can be fairly deep before it causes problems with headway. Drifts can be another story. They tend to be a lot more solid.
Plow throw at crossings can be a problem with freeze/thaw, along with ice-filled flangeways therein.
There are plenty of switch heaters in the east as well.
Other considerations can be slick rails and icy brakes. I don't think fine snow getting into the traction motors is the problem it used to be.
One important consideration is the fact that you're running on blind faith. You can't see the rails, although if there's been traffic you can at least see where they were last time a train went through.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 ... One important consideration is the fact that you're running on blind faith. You can't see the rails,...
One important consideration is the fact that you're running on blind faith. You can't see the rails,...
AKA "Pucker factor," and I don't mean the kissing lips.
When it's over the top of the cab it's time to stop.
(Many years ago saw the aftermath of a UP GP-7 vs a drift that tall in eastern Colorado, High nosed short hood looked like it was attacked by an industrial can opener...end of #105 in a cut section)
Santa Fe GP39-2s had no trouble with 5 feet of snow on the KS & CO branch lines. The bigger issue was ice and water in the traction motors.
Two feet of snow and a 'unconditioned' train brake will permit a coal train to descend a 2% grade without impediment - until the cars leave the track.
Snow and ice had not been 'melted' so that there was brake shoe to wheel contact and the train had no effective air brakes descending the grade with more tonnage than the dynamic brakes could control. Of course there was the obligatory engineer Emergency Application, which then released the dynamic brakes. Engines made it to the bottom of the grade, 80 of 90 cars did not.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
In extreme blowing snow conditions, fine snow can plug up the air intakes. (As well as get into traction motors.)
A few winters back, a coal train going north on the Short Line (more commonly known now as the Spine Line) encountered a 25mph temporary speed restriction in a bad location. It was on a hill in a location prone to drifting during a severe winter storm. The train stalled and snow blew in around, between and under cars. Took about a week to dig the train out.
Jeff
BaltACD Two feet of snow and a 'unconditioned' train brake will permit a coal train to descend a 2% grade without impediment - until the cars leave the track. Snow and ice had not been 'melted' so that there was brake shoe to wheel contact and the train had no effective air brakes descending the grade with more tonnage than the dynamic brakes could control. Of course there was the obligatory engineer Emergency Application, which then released the dynamic brakes. Engines made it to the bottom of the grade, 80 of 90 cars did not.
That had to be the Sandpatch wreck in 2010. A friend sent me photos; what a mess!
Norm
tree68 One important consideration is the fact that you're running on blind faith. You can't see the rails, although if there's been traffic you can at least see where they were last time a train went through.
If you're working on a line with cuts potentially filled with drifting snow and dirt, what's the normal proceedure to get through? Do you just put put 'er in 4 wheel drive (or 8 or 12 wheel drive, depending on your equipment) and go until you can't?
If it's coming down that hard, line up a work train (with or without a plow/flanger/spreader attached) and start running the line just to peel off the new layers of snow. Hope your railroad's locomotive has pilot mounted plows - they do work pretty well.
Still have memories from the 80's of train crew on a 30 MPH branch giving a rebel yell over the radio every time they were bucking big drifts to warn the waycar that the slack might be unexpectedly running in.
Someone must decide that a plow extra is necessary and that decision will be made on the basis of what is known. Absent that, someone must decide to run a plow on the train, again based on conditions. Absent that, it is get on and go with regular power and regular train.
John Langlot and I are writing a book about his career as a GN/BN/BNSF trainman 1960-2005 working out of Spokane, Washngton and the subject of snow and snow plowing comes up several times.
One story is the day he was on #97, the hottest westward train the GN operated. They had three SD-45 units and something in the range of 3600-4000 tons. Somewhere around Harrington they hit a cut "full of snow" at track speed, probably in the range of 50-60 MPH. John says he felt that the lead unit was going airborne. If it did, it came down on the rails and all was well but the snow covered the windshield and obscured the headlight which was mounted just below the roof of the cab. They ran blind for a mile or so and could not see the next signal for the snow. They had to approach the following signal prepared to stop for it. At the end of double track at Lamona they got there and stopped to meet an opposing train. The front cab door would not budge, so John had to exit via the rear door to make his roll by inspection from the ground on the opposite side of the main track. They did manage to exit from the front of the cab at Wenatchee a few hours later.
On the Nelson line, which worked out one day and back the next, they put a snow dozer on the head end every day. This line included a mountain crossing with plenty of snow. The unique thing about this is that they set out or picked up the dozer at Troup Junction rather than take it the additional five miles into Nelson. I suspect this was to avoid charges that the CPR would have imposed for turning the plow at Nelson.
One day on the W-O line there was a big blowing snow storm so the Roadmaster got a plow extra. All was well until they hit a crossing at Chelan Falls that was full of ice. Both plow and engine derailed at speed. Had to call the Big Hook to set that one aright.
He also caught a couple of plow extras out of Bonners Ferry ID, which worked mostly the main line between Bonners and Troy MT, the crew change point and in the Kootenay Canyon. This was snow slide and slide fence territory. The first objective was to keep the main track open, and the second was to "big wing" the line, that is to move the snow back away from the track. These plow jobs were called off the extra board and everybody was on the job until the Roadmaster decided he could pull the job off. Each lasted about two weeks. John attributes this in part to the fact that the company would not call the plow until the railroad was on the brink of being overwhelmed, so they always started out behind.
Bonners was the main line connection for a branch line that was operated "as necessary". Traffic was mostly grain, so there was still some demand in the winter. He tells of spending three days plowing about 50 miles of line with a Jordan Spreader and one GP-9. This was a run till you stall, back up, hit it again and go till you stall. Repeat as necessary.
For those who are interested in snow plowing, the Great Northern Railway Historical Society, gnrhs.org, publishes Reference Sheets which it will sell to non-members. Recent RS 393 covers "...Dozers, Drags, Flangers, and spreaders." all of which were used to clear snow. It covers every single dozer, drag, flanger, and spreader the GN ever had. The variety is staggering. A dozer in GN terminology is what most folks would call a snow plow. Dozers were all home built, and most had spreader type wings to clear a space beside the track.
Go to GNRHS.org, select "Publications" from top bar, find list of Reference Sheets and select RS393. Nonmember price is $9.95 and you get a package of four publications, one of which is RS393.
Mac
Left handed plow anyone? Former C&NW plow built on an old ALCO locomotive. It's now on the Boone & Scenic Valley and has been used a few times to clear the line for Christmas specials and the dinner train. (They also have a couple of wedge plows built on gondolas and an ec-M&STL Russell plow that's not used.)
The left handed plow was involved in at least one accident, the engineer involved retiring within the last year. As I understand it, they hit a large drift and the force of the heavy wet snow pushed the plow off the rails towards the right.
http://www.hazegray.org/rail/snow/wedge/cnw02.jpg
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