CSX has a local area including a CP with turnout. For about 500 - 600 feet this area including end of siding has suffered from moisture pumping and need to constantly be resurfaced.
Starting last Wedensday thru today ( unknown Sat and Sun ) a contractor has been working on the area. At least a couple times a day Grout appears to be pumped into the ground. Then contaminated ballast and mud that rises is removed, new ballast and surfacing done ( by a truck mounted surfacer ) to repair track geometry. Trains are running on a slow order. Then process is repeated. Have no idea how long this will continue. There is still a complete trailer load of cement sized bags of grout (?) still at location.
Question maybe for MC and pals have you known of this method and is it often used ? First thought was maybe the downeaster route needs this kind of treatment.
Could be grout as you suspect, or injected lime stabilization, or any of several other similar methods. Do a search for "lime injection soil stabilization" or some variations. For example:
https://lime.org/documents/publications/free_downloads/fact-soil-stabilization.pdf
http://solutions.avantigrout.com/stabilize-soil-and-control-groundwater/?gclid=CjwKEAjw-IOwBRD1wrTC27fSjFISJABUDZ17jBf5Z4j0mSKInhjmnz46ro5Rh5OiVW9yI0hCj3tC2xoCsNrw_wcB
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_cement
- Paul North.
+1....and it's probably Hayward Baker injecting lime and flyash into either a ballast pocket or a water-fed layer of fines. The injected material displaces the water in the voids between the fines and slows down the swelling/shrinking soils.
CSX probably could not over-excavate the site and dry-out the subgrade the old fashioned way. If this is moisture feeding the soft soils, the displaced water will find the next path of least resistance and create problems there, hopefully off the R/W. (Lime or fly-ash injection may fix a symptom, but not the cause. Hope somebody was observant enough to figure out the cause instead of just slapping on a band-aid and walking away.)
MC thanks that will give some thought for additional detective work.
The track is located between 2 streets which are about 60 feet apart. As well the location is in a flood plain. With all the rain this summer the water table is probably only 3 feet below top of cross ties. Finally this is a very old track location that was laid before the civil war. Proper subgrade ? Unlikely as the whole line has a 50 MPH MAS. Is usually surfaced every 12 - 18 months.
Subgrade stablization is a fairly common, but expensive technique. One of the big purposes is to fill in the voids in the grade. Over the years, track that settles pushes up the sides of the grade creating what is similar to a bath tub. Water is trapped in this area, keeping the grade unstable. This area also traps fines which work like a lubricant on the other materials in the grade.
Areas between roads can be especially bad as the subgrade has a problem drying as the adjacent ground stays wet. When the area is moist, water is sucked up as the track naturally pumps, bringing with it more fines and trash to contaminate the grade further.
Ash or lime stabilization is a common, but imperfect technique, however. I've been involved with miles of such projects and have actually seen the slurry flow out of nearby fields, with it following the underground water routes.
Another technique is to open one side of the fill and let it drain, push drain pipes into the fill, and then backfill with large riprap. The materials moved are deposited on the other side of the track, making a much wider fill. The weight on the material helps hold the grade in place and the riprap and drain pipes help keep the fill drier and more stable.
I hope you choked off the rip-rap.
Over 3 decades ago when I worked for the Phillie Water Dept. there was the story where the city had hired a mud jacking company to pump mud under Delaware Ave. where there was some subsidence. The company was working their way up the street drilling holes and then jacking the mud.
A telephone company truck pulled up to them, two very agitated guys got out and asked the mud company if they were mud jacking, to which they responded yes. the telephone guys were mad because they were working in a telephone manhole about 2 blocks away when suddenly the manhole filled up with mud. Evidently the jacking company drilled into a telephone conduit and filled it, and the manhole, up with mud. The jacking company foreman said he thought that hole was taking a lot of mud.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusman Over 3 decades ago when I worked for the Phillie Water Dept. there was the story where the city had hired a mud jacking company to pump mud under Delaware Ave. where there was some subsidence. The company was working their way up the street drilling holes and then jacking the mud. A telephone company truck pulled up to them, two very agitated guys got out and asked the mud company if they were mud jacking, to which they responded yes. the telephone guys were mad because they were working in a telephone manhole about 2 blocks away when suddenly the manhole filled up with mud. Evidently the jacking company drilled into a telephone conduit and filled it, and the manhole, up with mud. The jacking company foreman said he thought that hole was taking a lot of mud.
Undergound utilities in urban areas - especially urban areas that developed over 18th, 19th and 20th centuries have poor mapping of those utilities. Dig at your own risk.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDUndergound utilities in urban areas - especially urban areas that developed over 18th, 19th and 20th centuries have poor mapping of those utilities. Dig at your own risk.
I suspect Mudchicken would agree wholeheartedly.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I don't know how it works in other areas, but in the Chicago area most of these occurrences happen when the contractor fails to contact JULIE, which is a locating service. At the same time, I've seen streets in the Loop area with so many paint lines marking all sorts of utility lines I wonder how anything can get done.
It's 811 (or Holey Moley) around here that you call before digging. But they're not infallable and not every utility participates. It's up to you to know who and what is down there.
I tell those working with me, the plans are only good until you stick a shovel in the ground.
Best locating tool is a backhoe . . . finds 'em almost every time
Backhoe: The natural enemy of the Internet . . .
The 811 systems ("PA One-Call" here) are a big improvement, but some locations are in error more than the expected tolerance, private utilities are almost never in the system, etc., etc. "Prudent techniques" = hand-digging or vacuum excavation, etc. whenever within 18", so it can be slow.
Just 2 weeks ago I helped a municipal authority correctly mark and record the location of its 48" steel casing for a sewer line after we'd uncovered it on both sides of a wide road - fortunately without damaging it. Their mark-out was like 20 ft. off . . .
All of us in that line of work have dozens of "war stories". Some still scare me . . .
I want to put up a small tower to hold one end of an antenna (HF, for the hams), but where I want to put it is near where a sewer line runs across the back of my property. I suspect I may know where the line is located better than the folks I'm asking to check it for me. I've seen the drawings they'll be working from...
One thing I have going for me is that bedrock isn't very far down - they had to use a rock trencher to get the sewer line down deep enough. So if I hit solid rock, I know I'm not right over the line (I'll be digging by hand - the tripod won't need a huge/deep base).
Call them ... If they mark it wrong and you hit it, it is not your fault. Don't call them and hit it, that is a different story.
Mark the area you want to dig in white and they will mark the sewer in green.
There is no charge for them to mark it.
rdamonThere is no charge for them to mark it.
It's the town highway department. I know them all personally...
In fact, I sit on the sewer advisory board...
tree68In fact, I sit on the sewer advisory board...
Hope you wiped it down first.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Paul_D_North_Jr Best locating tool is a backhoe . . . finds 'em almost every time Backhoe: The natural enemy of the Internet . . . The 811 systems ("PA One-Call" here) are a big improvement, but some locations are in error more than the expected tolerance, private utilities are almost never in the system, etc., etc. "Prudent techniques" = hand-digging or vacuum excavation, etc. whenever within 18", so it can be slow. Just 2 weeks ago I helped a municipal authority correctly mark and record the location of its 48" steel casing for a sewer line after we'd uncovered it on both sides of a wide road - fortunately without damaging it. Their mark-out was like 20 ft. off . . . All of us in that line of work have dozens of "war stories". Some still scare me . . . - Paul North.
We've been getting new water and gas lines in our little street. Old town, old lines, etc. PA 1-call keeps marking the wrong spot for our sewer line (they had to come out for the water co, and then for the gas co.) They weren't 100% about all the other lines, and the water company managed to find the gas line going into one of the houses with their backhoe the first day.
When the backhoe operator suddenly jumps out of his seat and starts running .. follow him!
rdamon When the backhoe operator suddenly jumps out of his seat and starts running .. follow him!
Except he won't be running when the hydraulically-powered utility locator "finds" a live power line. He'll be sitting there with his hands and feet in the air. They had to bring a cutting torch to unweld the tracks.
You want to watch sphincters pucker up, use multiple hydraulically-powered utility locators to cut on top of the code-line during a two-tracking project when the signal department hadn't gotten around to relocating it an eighth of a mile from the division dispatching office. Been there, done that. Not a fun day for anyone.
Just last Wednesday, an excavator working along the shoulder of a major 3-lane road snagged an unmarked dead (capped) old gas service line, but didn't break it. However, the machine did yank on the old line hard enough to pull it out of the 60 psi gas main under the middle lane of said major road, which main then proceeded to leak at a prodigous rate and cause a great deal of commotion until it could be dug up and capped. (This happens more often than you might think.) Fortunately, no fire or explosion, but a lot of "pucker factor".
I wasn't there then - heard about this from one of my colleagues on Friday - but saw the location and fortunately minor results today. The names and location will be withheld to protect the guilty.
Oh yeah - one more detail: the project was installation of a new gas main to replace the old one, by a contractor for the same gas company . . .
Paul_D_North_Jr However, the machine did yank on the old line hard enough to pull it out of the 60 psi gas main under the middle lane of said major road, - Paul North. Interesting around here gas mains are 21 PSI in the summer and 26 PSI in winter.
However, the machine did yank on the old line hard enough to pull it out of the 60 psi gas main under the middle lane of said major road,
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