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Posted by tdmidget on Thursday, July 16, 2015 10:41 PM

I'm curious. Does anyone know of a person who gotten a job with a railroad after attending this "school"? Why would a railroad hire such a person and immediately retrain them? Training someone from brand new is way easier than breaking bad habits. I'm betting that no one has gotten a job with a class one based on this diploma mill. I suspect that a class action suit might be a winner here.

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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, July 17, 2015 7:12 AM

oltmannd

 

 
Euclid
He conjectures that the engineer was testing to see if PTC would bleed over onto his track if he exceeded the speed limit.  Anything is possible, but that sounds like an overly wild and grand theory.  It also amounts to accusing the engineer of what probably would rise the being criminal.  Where would Rangel even get such an idea from?  Why would the engineer want to perform the test that Rangel suggests? 

 

It shows Rangel has no trouble talking about things he knows almost nothing about.  There is nothing but CCS on those tracks - no civil speed ACSES stuff at all.  There is no "PTC to test" - just to get started.  

There is no law stopping stupid people from talking...

 

I think what continues to bug me about this is that the best Fox could do for a RR training expert was Modoc.   Really?  How hard did they try to get a guy from a large railroad?  (my hunch, not that hard...)

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Euclid on Friday, July 17, 2015 7:38 AM

oltmannd
 
oltmannd

 

 
Euclid
He conjectures that the engineer was testing to see if PTC would bleed over onto his track if he exceeded the speed limit.  Anything is possible, but that sounds like an overly wild and grand theory.  It also amounts to accusing the engineer of what probably would rise the being criminal.  Where would Rangel even get such an idea from?  Why would the engineer want to perform the test that Rangel suggests? 

 

It shows Rangel has no trouble talking about things he knows almost nothing about.  There is nothing but CCS on those tracks - no civil speed ACSES stuff at all.  There is no "PTC to test" - just to get started.  

There is no law stopping stupid people from talking...

 

 

 

I think what continues to bug me about this is that the best Fox could do for a RR training expert was Modoc.   Really?  How hard did they try to get a guy from a large railroad?  (my hunch, not that hard...)

 

Don,

I don't understand your point.  What does Fox getting a railroad expert have to do with the Rangel controversy?

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, July 17, 2015 7:43 AM

It is a related, parallel issue since it involves the same person.

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Posted by Euclid on Friday, July 17, 2015 8:02 AM
tdmidget

I'm curious. Does anyone know of a person who gotten a job with a railroad after attending this "school"? Why would a railroad hire such a person and immediately retrain them? Training someone from brand new is way easier than breaking bad habits. I'm betting that no one has gotten a job with a class one based on this diploma mill. I suspect that a class action suit might be a winner here.

 
I can’t answer your question, but I would not conclude that MODOC has no credibility just because of what Rangel said.  Regarding a class action suit, the aggrieved class would be railfans offended by the use of the term “foamer.”   Amazingly, this class seems to have entirely overlooked Rangel’s far greater sin of attacking the character of the Amtrak engineer.
If a class action suit were organized for the offended railfans, they will probably want to sue Trains magazine along with Rangel. 
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, July 17, 2015 10:38 AM

Euclid
 
tdmidget

I'm curious. Does anyone know of a person who gotten a job with a railroad after attending this "school"? Why would a railroad hire such a person and immediately retrain them? Training someone from brand new is way easier than breaking bad habits. I'm betting that no one has gotten a job with a class one based on this diploma mill. I suspect that a class action suit might be a winner here.

 
 
I can’t answer your question, but I would not conclude that MODOC has no credibility just because of what Rangel said.  Regarding a class action suit, the aggrieved class would be railfans offended by the use of the term “foamer.”   Amazingly, this class seems to have entirely overlooked Rangel’s far greater sin of attacking the character of the Amtrak engineer.
If a class action suit were organized for the offended railfans, they will probably want to sue Trains magazine along with Rangel. 
 

   Are you so obtuse that you can't understand tdmidget's post?  Class action by students for not being able to get hired by a class 1 is what he wrote.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, July 17, 2015 10:44 AM

tdmidget

I'm curious. Does anyone know of a person who gotten a job with a railroad after attending this "school"? Why would a railroad hire such a person and immediately retrain them? Training someone from brand new is way easier than breaking bad habits. I'm betting that no one has gotten a job with a class one based on this diploma mill. I suspect that a class action suit might be a winner here.

 



Unless MODOCC specifically guaranteed its graduates a job matching their field of study with a railroad (highly unlikely), a class action suit would seem ill advised. 

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Posted by Wizlish on Friday, July 17, 2015 12:41 PM

tdmidget
I'm betting that no one has gotten a job with a class one based on this diploma mill. I suspect that a class action suit might be a winner here.

 

I'd be quite sure that the contract a student signs with MODOC clearly states there is no promise of employment with a railroad as a result.  They might sweeten that with discussion about maintaining a clearinghouse service or even an Internet job board with 'inside' opportunities -- but push come to shove, no guarantee.

I'd suspect they even have a disclaimer somewhere on their Web site that says this in fine print.  I have seen vocational schools that promise a 100% employment rate to graduates of some of their programs -- but usually that is based on supply and demand, and when you look at the actual contractual 'guarantee' there are weasel words...

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, July 17, 2015 1:29 PM
It wasn’t Fox that validated Rangel’s expert credentials.
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Posted by schlimm on Friday, July 17, 2015 7:59 PM

Rangel seems to be a loud-mouthed and possibly bigoted person.  That alone does not mean he is not an expert on controlling trains anymore than similar negative interpersonal qualties meant that General Patton wasn't an expert on armor warfare.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, July 17, 2015 10:05 PM

schlimm

Not sure about fictional characters, but check out blogs, comment sections in TX newspapers and even some TX politicians for a lot of bizarre conspiracy theories.  Such fantasy musings are not limited to TX, of course, and many/most Texans are fine folks.

Off Topic kind of but as long as we are on conspiracy theories.....

Check out the former C&NW track via Google Earth just South of Devil's Lake, WI.   What is going on there?   Is that a former Nike Missile Base that protected Madison, WI?    Very strange track layout and land features. 

Mystery to me.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, July 17, 2015 10:25 PM

Just in case anyone wants to look at their site. 

 http://www.modocrailroadacademy.com/faq.htm  (I couldn't get the pdf's to open, just got a blank screen.)

I don't doubt that graduates can find railroad employment.  It may not be on a class 1, but there are a lot more railroads out there besides the class 1 railroads.  There are short lines and contract switching outfits.  They might look more favorably on a Modoc graduate than someown with no experience at all.  Even then, I would expect them (at least the better ones) to give a graduate more training before letting them loose on the job.

That's not to say a Modoc graduate hasn't been hired on a class 1 right out of the school.  I've read on other forums where maybe someone actually has, but it seems like it's rare.  Probably because the major railroads will do their own training, even for those with prior actual railroad experience.   To them, a Modoc diploma isn't going to mean much. 

If someone has their eyes set only on a class 1, forget the place.  If someone is willing to work for a short line or a contract outfit, it might be worth it.  I would still recommend someone to do a lot of checking and thinking.

There is a clearinghouse that anyone can see where there are railroad jobs open.  It also has more than just train service jobs.   It may not have all railroad jobs across the country, just those reported to the RRB.  (I know the IAIS has some current openings that don't show up.)  There are links to individual railroads at this site, too. 

http://www.rrb.gov/PandS/Jobs/rrjobs.asp  I haven't looked at this site for a long time.  I remember when there were a lot more jobs in all categories available.  

Jeff

 

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Posted by NorthWest on Friday, July 17, 2015 10:25 PM

CMStPnP
Check out the former C&NW track via Google Earth just South of Devil's Lake, WI. What is going on there? Is that a former Nike Missile Base that protected Madison, WI? Very strange track layout and land features.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badger_Army_Ammunition_Plant

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, July 17, 2015 10:40 PM

Thanks, yeah I just found the official report....

http://www.jmc.army.mil/Docs/History/Badger%20Army%20Ammunition%20Plant%20-%20V3%20Internet.pdf

I thought it was further West though and served by the Milwaukee Road?

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Posted by NorthWest on Friday, July 17, 2015 10:58 PM

I think it was served by the Milwaukee from the south as an extension of the Sauk City branch.

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:53 PM

wanswheel
It wasn’t Fox that validated Rangel’s expert credentials.
 

Even worse!

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, July 21, 2015 12:58 PM

schlimm

Rangel seems to be a loud-mouthed and possibly bigoted person.  That alone does not mean he is not an expert on controlling trains anymore than similar negative interpersonal qualties meant that General Patton wasn't an expert on armor warfare.

 

His comments about "PTC testing" show that he is not an expert on railway signalling.  His lack of specifics when interviewed about the Amtrak wreck shows he know little about Amtrak's operation.  

Why in the world any reputable new organization would seek him out as an "expert" instead of someone from an organization that actually operates passenger trains on the NEC - or even a class one frt RR, is beyond me...  unless, of course Rangel contacted them first! 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, July 21, 2015 9:55 PM

oltmannd

 

 
schlimm

Rangel seems to be a loud-mouthed and possibly bigoted person.  That alone does not mean he is not an expert on controlling trains anymore than similar negative interpersonal qualties meant that General Patton wasn't an expert on armor warfare.

 

 

 

His comments about "PTC testing" show that he is not an expert on railway signalling.  His lack of specifics when interviewed about the Amtrak wreck shows he know little about Amtrak's operation.  

Why in the world any reputable new organization would seek him out as an "expert" instead of someone from an organization that actually operates passenger trains on the NEC - or even a class one frt RR, is beyond me...  unless, of course Rangel contacted them first! 

 

Probably so.  An ignorant buffoon.

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Posted by Randy Stahl on Wednesday, July 22, 2015 6:17 PM

Railroad employees are forbidden from speaking to the press. Hard to find an expert who is currently working with the technology/ machinery. The press hasn't a lot of options for "expert" opinions so they choose whoever seems the brightest or whomever blows the loudest horn.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Wednesday, July 22, 2015 9:21 PM

Except for the PR people, who should have access to authoritative and credible sources = experts within the company.

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, July 22, 2015 10:07 PM

If you go to the Modoc site, one of the the things they advertise is "Expert Witness Service."  Maybe this site just happened to come up on some reporter's internet search engine.

Jeff

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, July 22, 2015 10:09 PM

Randy Stahl

Railroad employees are forbidden from speaking to the press. Hard to find an expert who is currently working with the technology/ machinery. The press hasn't a lot of options for "expert" opinions so they choose whoever seems the brightest or whomever blows the loudest horn.

Can't forget the 24 hour news cycle and the desire to get it out there, now, then worry about the details later.

Then there is the problem we have in the fire service, where the press is often viewed as a pariah.  They're pushed away and use whatever they can get.  A few folks have gotten smart and realized that there are "teaching moments," but those folks are few and far between.

I'm sure the railroads aren't much different.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, July 24, 2015 1:29 AM

I don't know why anyone would pay for Modoc when you can get most of the training provided by them largely free.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oKza4LtKxc

Additional plus you get to shoot people that irritate you.Big Smile

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