Railroads Using Predessor And/Or Purchased Road Initials

[caldreamer]

Why do railroads such as BNSF use the initals of purchad railroads on its locomotives?  BNSF uses GN and UP used all of its purchased railroad initials on some its locomotives.

[Convicted One]

I could be wrong, but I think it is a matter of accounting.  Railroads such as Norfolk Southern have acquired large rosters of equipment from various predecessors (Conrail, Southern, N&W, etc) and carry their value on their books in various ways. I think the tagging you've noticed is their way of keeping the accounts visually trackable. The equipment was originally purchased through a variety of financing methods, trusts, etc. And the assets have to be administered in a way that is responsible for the various creditors. Someone will undoubtedly know more, but I think that is the gist of it.

 

If you hold a lein on 2500 locomotives presently in use by the larger entity, you want to know which locomotives those are.

[tree68]

I'm not sure that UMLER has an official limit of four numbers for locomotives, but most companies seem to stick to it.  UP uses UPY for yard service, as I recall, so they can stretch things out.

Back when Class 1's were the size of today's regionals, the idea that one railroad might have 10,000 locomotives was probably unthinkable.  Nowadays it's far more common.

UP has been pretty agressive in "patching" acquired lines' locomotives.

I believe the RR's still try to lump a given model of locomotive into a numbering group.  If there's no room in that group, it may be easier to leave the acquired loco(s) of that model in their original railroad numbers.

Many will recall that UP 844 was renumbered 8444 because UP wanted to use 844 as part of a purchase of new locomotives (GP30's?).

On the freight car side, I know I saw a lot of CR hoppers (coal/coke) patched "NYC" after the split, which it finally occured to me meant the car was going to CSX.

[SALfan]

Convicted One

I could be wrong, but I think it is a matter of accounting.  Railroads such as Norfolk Southern have acquired large rosters of equipment from various predecessors (Conrail, Southern, N&W, etc) and carry their value on their books in various ways. I think the tagging you've noticed is their way of keeping the accounts visually trackable. The equipment was originally purchased through a variety of financing methods, trusts, etc. And the assets have to be administered in a way that is responsible for the various creditors. Someone will undoubtedly know more, but I think that is the gist of it.

 

If you hold a lein on 2500 locomotives presently in use by the larger entity, you want to know which locomotives those are.

 

That could be part of it, but copyright/trademark law is also probably part of it.  My understanding is that if a trademark goes unused for a certain period of time, it is abandoned under the law and can be grabbed by anyone.

[caldreamer]

The latest verion of the Unler data specifications sets the maximum number for a locomotive at six digits.  Here is the specification.

Equipment ID 0001
The equipment stenciled number
Validation Rule for 0001-Equipment Number must not be larger than 6 digits (i.e. 999999)
NOTES:
• Equipment ID includes the mark and number stenciled on the equipment. Marks can be up to 4 characters and number up to 6 digits. (ie. ABCD999999). Up to 500 cars can be added or updated in a transaction.
• When adding an equipment record ensure that Prior Equipment ID (PRID) is reported unless the equipment is new.

[NorthWest]

A lot of cases it is to allow duplicate number series to coexist on a railroad without creating a black hole... Reporting mark changes are common on equipment that is about to be scrapped when a new series of equipment with the same numbers is introduced into service as replacements.

As noted, keeping the thousands of cars with short road numbers is also important.

Another case is that of an international railroad, where locomotives are owned by subsidiary companies to avoid possible problems. (IC for CN, SOO for CP.)

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The surviving railroad retains the right to the prior reporting marks after a merger or other acquisition.  Old issues of the Railroad Equipment Register (almost as interesting as the Official Guide) would show the reporting marks assigned to a particular railroad or car owner.  I am aware of M&StL and CGW reporting marks used on new coal hoppers for UP a few years back.

[CShaveRR]

Locomotives:  I've heard of (not seen myself) UP using "WP" on some units, and BNSF relettering some units "GN".  In both cases these are units slated for retirement or rebuilding, hastily moved off the active roster, presumably to clear a number series for new acquisitions.

Paul, C&NW used MSTL for coal gons 'way back, when it wanted to lease them without renumbering them (CNW had numbers that would have conflicted with them).  Never saw or heard of CGW.  UP now uses CMO reporting marks for equipment under lease (still don't know why some leased cars are CHTT, some CMO, some stay UP!), and that has been on coal gons as well as other equipment.  

[jeffhergert]

The other day I saw a very faded covered hopper with MKTT marks, used to belong to the MKT (Katy).  Now seeing equipment still in their original number isn't unusual.  I've even seen some cars shopped/rebuilt/repainted with the UP shield but their original reporting mark and number.  This covered hopper I saw, while having an old Katy initial was an old MP car, complete with Buzz Saw emblem, although very faded.

Jeff

[oltmannd]

caldreamer

Why do railroads such as BNSF use the initals of purchad railroads on its locomotives?  BNSF uses GN and UP used all of its purchased railroad initials on some its locomotives.

 

For freight equipment, the railroads own the mark and may never get around to repainting the equipment, so they just let it roll merrily along.  No harm.  No foul.  No problem.

[cv_acr]

UMLER might support loco numbers up to 6 digits, but it's possible other key systems don't.

CN has an old rebuilt RDC that is now a self-propelled track testing/evaluation car which used to be numbered 15016 (5-digit numbers in CN's numbering scheme were normally reserved for service equipment) but was later renumbered 1501, apparently because CN's dispatching software for managing track warrants could only handle 4-digit locomotive numbers.

[WM7471]

When NS & CSX split up the Conrail rolling stock, the historic reporting marks of the Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR) and the New York Central (NYC), were used as a way to indicate the new owner.  Only the reporting marks were repainted, with cars going to NS getting the PRR marks and CSX cars getting NYC.  IIRC it was a way to keep large blocks of car numbers from having to be changed.  Even though Conrail didn't have 999,999 cars, large blocks of cars would have to have been renumbered due to conflicts with existing NS and CSX car groups.  By using the historic marks that had been grandfathered to Conrail, a lot of confusion and paperwork was avoided. 

[CShaveRR]

Again (sigh!), the Conrail freight equipment assigned to NS was not relettered PRR--it merely retained its CR reporting marks (some were later relettered NS, and renumbered into the NS 600000 series).  Some locomotives carried PRR markings until they were renumbered into the NS numbering system.

CSX relettered its ex-Cons NYC.  However, soon after the split, CSX acqured more of the cars from NS.  Those often retained their CR paint jobs, but received CSXT numbers.  As time progressed and cars were repainted and rebuilt, they were renumbered into other series (some close to their ex-CR series; others in the CSXT numbering system), but--as far as I know--have always retained ther NYC reporting marks.