Proposed South American Transcon

[Victrola1]

"RIO DE JANEIRO/BEIJING, June 1 -- As China, Brazil and Peru recently announced thedecision to conduct feasibility study on a proposed transcontinental railway line in SouthAmerica, government officials, experts and industry insiders all advocate that environmentprotection should be put in the first place."

"The proposed route, which extends about 5,000 km, includes 2,000 km of existing railway and 3,000 km to be constructed. Upon its completion, Brazil's products will have easier access to the Asian market and millions of tons of cargos will also be brought to Peruvian ports."

http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0602/c90777-8901278.html

[BaltACD]

Anyone know what the height of the lowest pass through the Andes is?  While attaining that altitude from the East side of SA should be a relative piece of cake.  Descending from that altitude to the Pacific with the short distance available could be a real challenge.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

This sounds comparable to the French attempt at a sea-level Panama Canal.  I don't think that any real engineering studies have been made and the promotion of this idea could have been written by Ferdinand de Lesseps.  Crossing the Andes is one major engineering problem, building a railroad that won't decay overnight in the Amazon basin is another.

[Wizlish]

CSSHEGEWISCH

This sounds comparable to the French attempt at a sea-level Panama Canal.

I think it is more comparable to the American proposal for the sea-level canal through Nicaragua ... or, perhaps, the Vanderbilt-engineered South Penn route through the Appalachians.  What I would like it to demonstrate is the kind of engineering and implementation we saw in the Millau Viaduct project.  Modern technology (and modern methods of process management) have made the technical aspects of this task much less critical; the wonderful success of Wal-Mart has made the Chinese end of CREEC likely up to being able to follow through on anything they decide to start.  I also suspect that recent Chinese experience with elevated construction (for HSR) will have given them a big leg up on the equipment and distinctive competence necessary to construct maintainable, lasting railways with minimal effective 'ecological footprint' in the Amazon region.

What I want to see is a map of the proposed route, showing (1) the detailed topography and (2) those existing 2000 km of railway line.

There is another fairly significant consideration for a northern trans-Andean route, which the article does not mention (but which I suspect CREEC has at least considered).  I won't know until I see the actual route whether that consideration can be addressed directly, or will be better served with a new line or lines once the present line has been completed.

Crossing the Andes is one major engineering problem ...

How would that compare, with, say, the Qinghai-Tibet heavy rail line?  I rather think the Chinese understand what is involved there...

[samfp1943]

The following linked article might be of interest in this Thread:

"Across South America On The Trans-andean Railroad" 

linked @ http://travel.yodelout.com/across-south-america-on-the-trans-andean-railroad/

Here is a link to a Wikipedia article on the now out of service Transandine Railway a 1,000 mm line; started construction in 1874.

@  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transandine_Railway

and this article ( with some history and laughs(?) @ http://www.batguano.com/hamlet/ecuador03cd/andes/trannsandeanRR.html

[Victrola1]

The proposed rail link, known as the Twin Ocean Railroad, would connect Porto do Açu, a Brazilian Atlantic port, with Peru’s Puerto Ilo on the Pacific Ocean through some 3,300 miles (5,300 km) of rail. The railway is expected to cut transportation time and reduce the cost of shipping grain from Brazil to China by about $30 a ton, Brazilian officials told Reuters last year. China is a major trading partner for both countries: Brazil is a top exporter of iron ore and soybeans to China, while the biggest share of Peruvian exports -- primarily minerals like gold and copper -- also goes to Chinese markets.

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/china-brazil-peru-eye-transcontinental-railway-megaproject-1930003

[PNWRMNM]

Tell me about the traffic!

At first glance and with total lack of local knowledge, it seems a lot more cost effective to me to upgrade Atlantic ports, and probably the rail lines feeding them, perhaps with some rail line extensions, and float through the recently expanded Panama Canal. The canal will probably continue to limit ship sizes as compared with open ocean ships, but $10 billion investment needs a lot of tons at $30/ton savings to make economic sense for the Chinese.

Mac

[Norm48327]

BaltACD

Anyone know what the height of the lowest pass through the Andes is?  While attaining that altitude from the East side of SA should be a relative piece of cake.  Descending from that altitude to the Pacific with the short distance available could be a real challenge.

 

ECP brakes, My Man, ECP brakes!

Caution; sarcasm intended.

[tree68]

Looking at the route map on the one web page, it appears that they will be running parallel to the spine of the Andes for a portion of the trip.  Possibly analogous to how switchbacks cling to the side of the hill, this might burn off a lot of elevation in a much longer distance.

Acme Mapper doesn't have topo for that part of the world...

Edit:  There's already a railroad from Lake Titicaca (Elevation 12,000+) and the coast.  Follows a pretty tortuous route.  Start here:  S 16.99959 W 72.06480

[usmc1401]

Will this new line be built as standard gauge as Peru. Or will it be meter or wide gauge as Brazil has.

[cacole]

usmc1401

Will this new line be built as standard gauge as Peru. Or will it be meter or wide gauge as Brazil has.

 

It wouldn't really matter if two different gauges were to be used because the trucks could be changed out just like happens now between the Russian broad gauge and European standard gauge lines.

 

[BaltACD]

cacole

usmc1401

Will this new line be built as standard gauge as Peru. Or will it be meter or wide gauge as Brazil has.

 

It wouldn't really matter if two different gauges were to be used because the trucks could be changed out just like happens now between the Russian broad gauge and European standard gauge lines.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should - especially when you are designing the route from 'scratch'.  The gauge differences between Russia and China were politically created by Russia to not be compatible with any adjoining countries rail systems.

[Victrola1]

Lastly, Latin America is an essential pivot in the Chinese quest for global dominance and in addition may be seen as a reaction to American actions in the Chinese neighborhood. China has opened up 32 Confucius Institutes in Latin America as tools of “soft power" and its proposal to build the ambitious Nicaragua Canal is definitely a means to demonstrate its naval power.  

http://www.theeuropean-magazine.com/swaroopa-lahiri--3/8118-the-intricacies-of-sino-latin-american-relations--3

America's transcontinental railroad, Germany's Berlin to Baghdad plan and Russia's Trans Siberian railroad all had strategic geopolitical implications beyond the economic. China's trans South America proposal is bound to raise them also. 

 

[Euclid]

In the largest perspective, this Twin Ocean Railroad project is much more than building a new railroad.  It is about the rapid development of South America versus the preservation of its undeveloped nature as an asset in itself.  China intends to spend 10-billion on the railroad and 250-billion on South America.  There will be contentious debate between the developmental dreams of South America, versus those who wish to see that dream rolled back in other places where it has already come to fruition.

To China, the untapped wealth of natural resources of South America must seem like a treasure trove.  China will take South American home and send it back to North America in the form of new products.  In the process, South America will explode, and probably become a bigger player than North America.     

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The Chinese are probably more willing to even attempt this project since they don't care about environmental issues.  It would also be interesting to see how all of this will play out in the face of a fair amount of local opposition and how much extortion they will be willing to pay to the drug cartels.