Back in the bad old days (before grain moved in covered hoppers), unloading a box car of unbagged grain involved:
My question is, "How long did this normally take assuming a typical 40' boxcar and the optimum number of laborers?".
ChuckAllen, TX
From this thread of a few years back
Some of the larger, busier grain elevators had a contraption that tipped a grain boxcar sideways and then raised one end and then the other, to empty the grain.
This probably required less than 5 minutes to empty a car.
chutton01 From this thread of a few years back "A good crew could do a boxcar in about a 1/2 hr. depending how hot it was and the type of grain, but at the end they still had to finish with a good old broom and shovel."
"A good crew could do a boxcar in about a 1/2 hr. depending how hot it was and the type of grain, but at the end they still had to finish with a good old broom and shovel."
Thanks for the link. I must not hold my mouth right or something but I've never been able to get the search function to work very well. Maybe I ought to try again.
Some good info at that link. The idea of one rail being higher than the other had not occurred to me. That would sure make an interesting detail. I'm guessing that a two-track unloading bay like I'm planning for a free lanced export elevator would be set up to unload to the outside --- not between the two tracks --- so the rails nearest each other would be elevated. It will be an eye-catcher when the cars on the two tracks are leaning away from each other.
cacole Some of the larger, busier grain elevators had a contraption that tipped a grain boxcar sideways and then raised one end and then the other, to empty the grain. This probably required less than 5 minutes to empty a car.
There were mentions of things like that in the link chutton01 provided. Any idea when those would have been used? I'm stuck in 1943. Would shakers have been used then? I'm pretty sure rotating the whole box car would not have been used that early but I suppose it's possible.
Unloading Box Car 1924.
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/structures/index_view.cfm?photoid=-117070786&id=39
Thank You.
NDG Unloading Box Car 1924. http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/structures/index_view.cfm?photoid=-117070786&id=39 Thank You.
No, thank YOU.
I would never have guessed this would have been used as early as 1924. That picture kind of says I was completely wrong on that score.
I don't think I'll try to model that ... at least not an operating model. Maybe a longer-longer-than-really-necessary unloading shed alongside the elevator.
Off Topic?
Coal and Briquettes were loaded at some tipples as shown here.
http://www.maltwood.uvic.ca/cura/spalding/industry/017.html
http://www.maltwood.uvic.ca/spalding/images/industry/0023.jpg
Some old box cars had small sliding doors in the car ends into which curved chutes could be inserted for loading coal to keep weight over trucks.
The box car unloader shown above looks similar to what I saw (from a poor angle outside the fence) at a grain elevator in Thunder Bay ON in 1976. If my memory serves me right, it took about 5-10 minutes to empty the car.
https://www.nfb.ca/film/grain_handling_in_canada
About 19 minutes in it shows a box car being unloaded at a terminal elevator. States it takes about 7 minutes to unload.
Jeff
I wonder what effect such shaking and rotation such grain unloaders would have on truss-rod wood-underframe boxcars, which weren't excluded fron interchange service till the 1930s. Where such cars excluded from use in these unloaders (sort of the 1920s equivalent of "Do Not Hump"...although there were hump yards in the 1920s as well), or did they just have to tighten everything up after the car was unloaded?
wanswheel Western Grain Journal, April 21, 1921 OTTUMWA BOX CAR UNLOADER Device Reduces Labor and Saves Time - Loads As Well As Unloads . . .
Haven't had time to read your entire post, wanswheel, but two things have already surprised me. 1) This contraption was intended to be used both for unloading and loading and, 2) It was advertised as handling any kind of "loose bulk material". Were "crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel" ever normally shipped in box cars?
jeffhergert cacole Some of the larger, busier grain elevators had a contraption that tipped a grain boxcar sideways and then raised one end and then the other, to empty the grain. This probably required less than 5 minutes to empty a car. https://www.nfb.ca/film/grain_handling_in_canada About 19 minutes in it shows a box car being unloaded at a terminal elevator. States it takes about 7 minutes to unload. Jeff
That is a fascinating video, Jeff; thanks. Couldn't help noticing all the people involved. Canada's (and probably the USA's) law concerning grain shipments appear to be a Full Employment Act.
Interesting! I must say the Canadian Film Board put together some high quality 'slice of life' films detailing Canada and it's rail based operations of the 40's.
With all the sampleing and grading that takes place, according to the film, the must have been a number of Bernine Madoff types in the Canadian grain 'pipeline'.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
cefinkjrWere "crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel" ever normally shipped in box cars?
Not usually. Bulk material typically went in hoppers if it could get wet, and boxcars if it couldn't. Some sand may have been shipped by boxcar to avoid it getting damp, but it was likely bagged. Of course precious metal ore mostly traveled by boxcar.
Took me about five seconds once...Of course, the car wasn't supposed to be grabbed in the retarder and hit by the load behind it, but I buried the switch just outside the retarder.Wasn't a clean job of unloading, but those 40-footers held a whole heap of corn!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
NorthWest cefinkjr Were "crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel" ever normally shipped in box cars? Not usually. Bulk material typically went in hoppers if it could get wet, and boxcars if it couldn't. Some sand may have been shipped by boxcar to avoid it getting damp, but it was likely bagged. Of course precious metal ore mostly traveled by boxcar.
cefinkjr Were "crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel" ever normally shipped in box cars?
Were "crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel" ever normally shipped in box cars?
All of the coal that went past us in Irricana, AB from the Atlas Coal Mine at East Coulee was shipped in boxcars. There were interior "coal doors" made of lumber as opposed to the "grain doors" made of double layered corrugated cardboard.
And yes, shaker machines were used for unloading at some locations, although I did read on a Canadian RR forum once about an individual who had a summer job in the sixties working on a crew who hand bombed coal out of cars.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
cefinkjr Did precious metal ores ever move very far?
AgentKid cefinkjr Were "crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel" ever normally shipped in box cars? All of the coal that went past us in Irricana, AB from the Atlas Coal Mine at East Coulee was shipped in boxcars. There were interior "coal doors" made of lumber as opposed to the "grain doors" made of double layered corrugated cardboard. And yes, shaker machines were used for unloading at some locations, although I did read on a Canadian RR forum once about an individual who had a summer job in the sixties working on a crew who hand bombed coal out of cars. Bruce
cefinkjr
OK, that's my quota of new things to be learned today. I'm off to bed as soon as I reply to your post.
I was probably 10 years old before I realized that box cars were not special equipment. 99% of the cars passing through my home town were hoppers en route to and from coal mines in the area. So I hope you'll pardon my ignorance in thinking coal always moved in hoppers or, very occasionally, a gondola or two. Give me another 70+ years on this earth and I may learn not to even think words like "always".
Back in the day, on the Divide, Briquettes were manufactured at coal mines from coal dust using Briquette Wheels, was still used as fuel to heat and cook in Company Dwellings, Bunkhouses, Cabeese, and the Locomotive Foreman's office.
Briquettes.
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v7/580723769/Low_Sulfur_Coal_Briquette.jpg
At the mine, two large Briquette Wheels revolved touching each other, each with egg shape cups on their respective faces, powdered coal and a binder introduced between the wheels and filling the cups then compressed.
Similar Modern Briquette Wheels.
http://virtualweberbullet.com/kingsfordreport_photos/kingsford9.jpg
The briquettes then were shipped, often in low-ranking Company boxes.
They would break up if rained on, so they had to be kept dry.
The Bs were sloped up in each end to almost the roof in the car, to keep the weight over the wheels and leaving a alley across the car floor door to door to get in with a wheelbarrow when the car was at a loading ramp.
I wheeled tons of Briquettes to Dwellings one fall. Dust and Dirt and sweat.
They were best handled with a close-tined fork, which lifted the fuel, and left the dust behind. The dust would burn and was then shovelled.
Briquettes were unloaded by Section Forces into a shed for access by Train Crews for Cabeese, and for plows etc. and for Business Cars still having coal ranges.
Briquettes were an ideal fuel, not much smoke, leaving just a powdery grey ash.
On Cabeese, Bs were stored under the bunk on the stove side wall. A folding Bench in day time, a fold down bed at night.
The two Trainmens' matressess stored on top of Conductor's mattress and covered with canvas when the caboose was in use for Service.
The bunk end of a Caboose was kept clean, as thats where one lived when off duty. That end door was NOT to be used to keep floor clean when spotted for the night, and was usually locked.
God help a Calling Clerk if he forgot and came in that way, esp. if he had dirty feet. esp. the gooey grease from Traction Motor gearing.
The best trip on a Caboose was going home Deadhead ahead of the Road Caboose, snoozing in the bunk with just the glow of the stove and the motion of the train, and the SLACK. All jointed rail below could determine the speed.
One game was to try and guess the location by curves, bridges and siding switches, eyes closed half-asleep in the bunk.
Water hissing on the stove as the kettle slopped over on the curves and against the slack,
Years ago,
NDG,
Your mention of "on the Divide" went right over my head. Is "Divide" a nickname I've never heard for some railroad?
I otherwise enjoyed reading your post. Coal made into briquettes would have to be shipped in box cars to keep the briquettes dry. Hadn't thought of coal briquettes. I wonder what the binder was.
Reading about coal briquettes though took me back to diners and business cars in the early '70s. The kitchens used what looked exactly like charcoal briquettes but the smell of the smoke gave them away.
In the 1950s a local coal mine in southern Illinois made coal briquettes by compressing coal dust mixed with a small amount of diesel fuel. After burning, there was nothing left but a very small amount of ash to dispose of.
cefinkjr [ snip ] Were "crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel" ever normally shipped in box cars?
[ snip ]
Apparently the megatons of cement used in construction of Hoover Dam were delivered in bulk, in box cars. All of it was delivered to Himix (the concrete plant above the dam, about where the rear of the parking garage is now.) A considerable amount was sent on to Lomix (the mixing plant in the canyon upstream of the dam, now submerged) by being blown through a pipe by compressed air.
Chuck
Las Vegas, NV
I understand that one reason Briquettes went out was that the local mines that had the wheels shut down and no more were available at a reasonable cost.
Coal-burning Cabeese started to disappear around the same time, and those left were converted to burn Diesel in pot burners and could be fueled at the locomotive fuel stands
The Company used to deliver it's own Bs, but as roads improved, Dealers were contracted to bring oil to those facilities that required it. Locomotives are now often fueled by contract.
I liked the Bs as a fuel, other than the handling, and that the fire eventually went out on cold nights. Oil stayed lit all the time, and provided even heat.
CP had a whole series of box car in the 9xxxx series with roof hatches as on covered hoppers and normal sliding side doors to transport bulk lime??
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