Sometimes a grade separation is not enough

[schlimm]

Sometimes even a grade separation is not enough if the drivers don't even understand what "Clearance" means.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-irving-park-near-ohare-closed-state-blames-truckers-20150324-story.html

 

"A large number of truckers failed to heed a posted detour sign warning of a low bridge and struck the bridge after it reopened Sunday evening, according to the Illinois Department of Transportation."  The overpass has temporary clearance only 12'6"(clearly marked)  which is less than the standard 13'6"  because the rail line cannot be elevated another foot.  Eventually the road surface will be lowered another foot.

[BaltACD]

Since 13'6" is the 'normal' truck clearance, I would put this squarely on IDOT for not doing what was necessary to create 13'6" even for a temporary situation, especially if this is a pre-existing truck utilized route.  Signs don't overcome old habits.

[tree68]

There is a low clearance location just north of Syracuse.  Raising the railroad would be possible but pricey, especially given the relatively low traffic (four to six trains a day?), and lowering the road is virtually impossible due to ground water levels there.

The bridge has numerous signs, flashing lights, you-name-it.  Nonetheless, the driver of an oversized (double decker) bus was so tied up with his GPS (he'd missed a turn) that he didn't see any of them.  It wasn't pretty.

 

[Norm48327]

And there's this little gem in Battle Creek, MI that snags the unwary. Bidge hasn't moved yet. Picture didn't show in the post. It's upton Ave. Clearance is 10'6".

[BaltACD]

[CShaveRR]

I mentioned this spot in my report in the "Chatterbox" just a few days ago.  At that time (Saturday?) the road was completely closed, due to open Monday with this problematic detour route.  The bridge is a brand new one, but the location is problematic for everything involved.

And they still have to shoehorn a new highway through here for western access to O'Hare!  I wish them luck.

https://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&fb=1&gl=us&ftid=0x880fb3f3358660bf:0x9bf973256e382ce&q=Bensenville,+IL&ei=R8ERVdCmD_eTsQSgroL4Bw&ved=0CBQQ8gEoADAA&output=classic&dg=brw

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

More accurately, in this instance there's not quite enough grade separation !

- Paul North. 

[Deggesty]

Paul_D_North_Jr

More accurately, in this instance there's not quite enough grade separation !

- Paul North. 

 

Paul, I'm glad that I had already swallowed the coffee I had last taken into my mouth before reading that.

[Victrola1]

January 30, 2013 (CHICAGO) --

Former Illinois Governor George Ryan will serve the rest of his sentence for corruption at home and was said to be surrounded by his grandchildren Wednesday afternoon.

For 78-year-old Ryan, this is a story that began nearly 20-years ago.

When George Ryan was Illinois Secretary of State in 1994, a truck driver who illegally obtained his commercial license, killed six children in a blazing crash.................

http://abc7chicago.com/archive/8974415/

You sometimes wonder how some obtain a driver's license. 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Glad you enjoyed that one, Johnny - I just had to share it ! 

Perhaps IDOT should install a truck version of the old railroad "tell-tale" - a series of vertical ropes or light chains hanging from a crossbar above the track that would 'tickle' a brakeman on the car tops to warn him of an impending low clearance bridge or tunnel, etc.  See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tell-tale#Railroad - note the photo of one for trucks there, too !

http://trn.trains.com/railroads/abcs-of-railroading/2006/05/tell-tales 

http://www.american-rails.com/tell-tales.html

In this instance, it would be a 'sacrificial' lightweight steel or wooden bar - kind of like a 'smashboard' at level railroad grade crossings - at the same height (or a wee bit lower) that would catch on the truck before the bridge, maybe break loose, and make all kinds of noise.  I've seen some in advance of old wooden covered bridges around here to prevent them from being damaged by too-tall trucks.  See:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Concord_Covered_Bridge.jpg 

- Paul North. 

[ACY Tom]

Forget the "'sacrificial' lightweight steel or wooden bar".  I suggest cinder blocks.  Big ones.

Tom

 

[Deggesty]

Paul_D_North_Jr

Glad you enjoyed that one, Johnny - I just had to share it ! 

Perhaps IDOT should install a truck version of the old railroad "tell-tale" - a series of vertical ropes or light chains hanging from a crossbar above the track that would 'tickle' a brakeman on the car tops to warn him of an impending low clearance bridge or tunnel, etc.  See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tell-tale#Railroad - note the photo of one for trucks there, too !

http://trn.trains.com/railroads/abcs-of-railroading/2006/05/tell-tales 

http://www.american-rails.com/tell-tales.html

In this instance, it would be a 'sacrificial' lightweight steel or wooden bar - kind of like a 'smashboard' at level railroad grade crossings - at the same height (or a wee bit lower) that would catch on the truck before the bridge, maybe break loose, and make all kinds of noise.  I've seen some in advance of old wooden covered bridges around here to prevent them from being damaged by too-tall trucks.  See:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Concord_Covered_Bridge.jpg 

- Paul North. 

 

That bar just before the Concord tunnel seems to be a bit close--unless the approaching vehicle is barely moving.

[tree68]

I've seen locations that have some sort of sensing system for overheight trucks which triggers flashing lights.  Probably uses lasers for the sensing.

The fact that the lights aren't on all of the time might prevent the complacency of drivers who regularly run the routes.

[BaltACD]

Oversize truck hits bridge under construction over I-35

http://www.nbcdfw.com/traffic/stories/Bridge-Collapse-Reported-on-Interstate-35-in-Central-Texas-297675931.html

[MikeF90]

Norm48327

And there's this little gem in Battle Creek, MI that snags the unwary. Bridge hasn't moved yet. Picture didn't show in the post. It's upton Ave. Clearance is 10'6".

I see your bridge and raise, er lower mine at Tilton Ave (8'6") on the Caltrain ROW in San Mateo, CA. There are several of these obsolete structures nearby and, unfortunately, local governments have been napping for decades WRT replacing them. Now that Caltrain ridership is booming it is costing us a fortune to build grade separations and other mitigations.

[Boyd]

Or just install a very long chain saw bar at the right height to cut the top off of anything too tall before it reaches the bridge. Imagine its your first time on this road with lots of traffic,,, lots of signs,,, and your view of signs is blocked by "other" box trucks and tall vehicles around you and I can see a person missing those crucial signs. Also remember some jurisdictions "like" to write tickets and the fix to the road or bridge would cut into their bottom line.

[Redore]

Trooper "Hey, get your truck stuck under the bridge?"

 

Driver "No, I was delivering this bridge and I ran out of gas."

 

Bill Engvall

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Then there was the tragedy in Texas yesterday where an apparently oversize load struck one of the concrete beams of a bridge under construction over I-35, knocked it down, and killed a passing driver.

- Paul North. 

[chutton01]

tree68

I've seen locations that have some sort of sensing system for overheight trucks which triggers flashing lights.  Probably uses lasers for the sensing

Oakland Gardens, Queens, NY. Long Island Expressway Eastbound to Cross Island Parkway Southbound. For decades there was no direct connection, and traffic going that way had to exit the LIE at 30 onto the service road (Horace Harding), futz around at the traffic lights at the intersection of Horace Harding and E. Hampton Blvd/Alley Rd (usually for multiple light cycles - I got sick and tired of seeing the brown hip roofs of the housing development at that intersection, and I'm sure the residents got tired of seeing this traffic), then head down a steep access ramp to the Cross Island.
Finally, after decades of this nonsense, around the turn of the century as part of a HOV and interchange improvement project the missing ramp was installed (why it wasn't done in the 1960s is unfathomable and unforgivable - no private land was taken for the ROW, and the construction materials were bog-standard rebar concrete and asphalt, not carbon fibre and aerogels. Considering the poorly laid out profile at the end of the ramp which goes down and then up for no good reason, I'm not convinced they even used lasers on this job).
Be that as it may, the ramp does now allow traffic a direct access route from the LIE east to the CIP south - and therein lies a problem, as it allows commercial trucks as well as cars/SUVs access to the parkway, and trucks are prohibited from using the parkway due to low bridge clearances (among other things). So NYSDOT installed large yellow "Low Clearance signs" on the ramps, with sensor activated flashing yellow lights.
After awhile, the lights began flashing all the time, not just when an oversized truck went down the ramp. Was it an electrical problem? Well, let's just say this is a temperate climate favorable for natural organic growth (IIRC this is one of the sensors in question).

OTOH, a few years back at several low LIRR bridges (e.g. Cherry Valley in Garden City), standard-format yellow clearence signs were installed that had solar powered flashing blue/white LEDS riming the sign edges. They do stand out pretty well, and I think they are quite useful, but I not sure how effective they are in reducing bridge collison incidents over the long term.

[Deggesty]

Back before I-15/I-80 conglomeration in the Salt Lake City area was rebuilt just before the WInter Olympics, the was a sign on NB I-15 south of the 3300 South exit, warning drivers whose load was too high to go under the 2700 South (access to Roper Yard) overpass to exit at 3300 South. I did not hear of anyone's ignoring the warning.

Now that the Spaghetti Bowl (look at a map of the area, which includes Utah 201 to/from the west and a collector just east of I-15/I-80) has been built, the clearance is much better.

There was an incident on I-15, going south, north of the city a few years back when a high load was caught by a structure.

[denveroutlaws06]

the worst underpass for trucks in CO. 11'4 under the BNSF brush Sub Denver,CO. and yes those black marks are from trucks trying to make it underneath. one day i know it will happen a train drailing cause a truck messing up that bridge cant image if its a loaded oil train involved.

https://goo.gl/maps/Co94w

 

[Deggesty]

denveroutlaws06

the worst underpass for trucks in CO. 11'4 under the BNSF brush Sub Denver,CO. and yes those black marks are from trucks trying to make it underneath. one day i know it will happen a train drailing cause a truck messing up that bridge cant image if its a loaded oil train involved.

https://goo.gl/maps/Co94w

 

 

The underpass is given black marks for not letting trucks go under it?

[Semper Vaporo]

Deggesty

 

denveroutlaws06

the worst underpass for trucks in CO. 11'4 under the BNSF brush Sub Denver,CO. and yes those black marks are from trucks trying to make it underneath. one day i know it will happen a train drailing cause a truck messing up that bridge cant image if its a loaded oil train involved.

https://goo.gl/maps/Co94w

 

 

 

 

 

The underpass is given black marks for not letting trucks go under it?

 

 

Click "through" the bridge and then turn around and look at the other end!!!  NO "Black Marks" at all!  It all comes off with the concrete! 

 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

denveroutlaws06

the worst underpass for trucks in CO. 11'4 under the BNSF brush Sub Denver,CO. and yes those black marks are from trucks trying to make it underneath. one day i know it will happen a train drailing cause a truck messing up that bridge cant image if its a loaded oil train involved. https://goo.gl/maps/Co94w 

A modern precast 'lightweight' I-beam bridge, or even those with separate reinforced concrete box beams, - possibly.  That's what was involved in the Texas mishap the other day, and we've lost parts or all of a few here in Pennsylvania from time to time when they've been hit, usually a 'point' impact by heavy construction equipment on a lowbed trailer, such as the boom of a big tracked hydraulic excavator ("hoe"). 

But not that bridge.  It reminds me of a mini-version of Joh Koh's Clinton St. Viaduct - "still undefeated".  The exposed face is part of a thick solid concrete deck that runs about 30 ft. to the other side, and has a fairly short span, so it's almost like a giant cement block.  And it was built 'back in the day', when no one shorted on the amount of cement in the concrete (which slowly gains strength over time).  The curves limit the approach speed, so the trucks may chip at it, and even take out some bigger pieces, but they ain't never gonna knock it down.   

- Paul North. 

[mudchicken]

denveroutlaws06

the worst underpass for trucks in CO. 11'4 under the BNSF brush Sub Denver,CO. and yes those black marks are from trucks trying to make it underneath. one day i know it will happen a train drailing cause a truck messing up that bridge cant image if its a loaded oil train involved.

https://goo.gl/maps/Co94w

 

 

Seems to have missed the other "mouseholes" on the same ex-CB&Q line at the Denver Western Stockyards (S-SW) and at Sand Creek Junction (60th Ave) (N-NE). Local jurisdiction that Outlaw is showing is a political mess. Plan & profile bad geometry plus a high water table makes for an expensive fix. At least the cemetery is close by , but old Riverside is full and good luck moving the graves.

(There is a section corner that falls in Riverside at the base of a headstone. The sight of surveyors running around in there, shovel in hand, looking for the aliquot corner - causes some raised eyebrows until they realize what surveyors are looking for.)

CB&Q built a lot of these in the 1920's and 1930's.

[BroadwayLion]

This bridge is monitored by a web cam 24/7. At 11 foot 8 it is taller than yours, but lots of interesting action shots. There *is* a guard beam ahead of the bridge installed by the railroad to prevent strikes on their infrastructure. There *are* detectors ahead of the bridge, and trucks must turn either right or left, or face the "can Opener".

Some choose the can opener.

ROAR

[BaltACD]

BroadwayLion

This bridge is monitored by a web cam 24/7. At 11 foot 8 it is taller than yours, but lots of interesting action shots. There *is* a guard beam ahead of the bridge installed by the railroad to prevent strikes on their infrastructure. There *are* detectors ahead of the bridge, and trucks must turn either right or left, or face the "can Opener".

Some choose the can opener.

ROAR

Same bridge I posted the video of earlier in the thread.

[SealBook27]

Here's one that blew my mind years ago. I drove a straight truck northbound on McDade Blvd. thru the Philly suburbs on my way to a new customer. As I approached the intersection where I was to turn right, I saw a railroad overpass that came across at an odd angle. I wouldn't have to pass under it when I turned, but coming back out later I would have to pass under it as I made the left back onto McDade. But not to worry; the clearance sign read 12' 6" and I only need 12' even. Now when I returned, the sign for southbound traffic read 11' 6". SAY WHAT!!! How did I get that mixed up. I actually parked the truck and walked down the street just to make sure I really had seen two different clearances. Sure enough, there was a girder sticking down on the far end of the overpass that reduced the clearance by about a foot. The only thing I knew to do was to turn aound in the street and cut thru a residential street with "No Trucks" signs.

[Deggesty]

mudchicken

 

denveroutlaws06

the worst underpass for trucks in CO. 11'4 under the BNSF brush Sub Denver,CO. and yes those black marks are from trucks trying to make it underneath. one day i know it will happen a train drailing cause a truck messing up that bridge cant image if its a loaded oil train involved.

https://goo.gl/maps/Co94w

 

 

 

 

Seems to have missed the other "mouseholes" on the same ex-CB&Q line at the Denver Western Stockyards (S-SW) and at Sand Creek Junction (60th Ave) (N-NE). Local jurisdiction that Outlaw is showing is a political mess. Plan & profile bad geometry plus a high water table makes for an expensive fix. At least the cemetery is close by , but old Riverside is full and good luck moving the graves.

 

(There is a section corner that falls in Riverside at the base of a headstone. The sight of surveyors running around in there, shovel in hand, looking for the aliquot corner - causes some raised eyebrows until they realize what surveyors are looking for.) MC, how often do surveyors visit the grave? Is there any way the marker can be raised so shovels will not be needed to find it? I presume it is not a geodetic survey marker.

CB&Q built a lot of these in the 1920's and 1930's.

 

[BaltACD]

http://www.odometer.com/lifestyle/5837/bridge-meets-truck-23-not-so-glamorous-tales-of-unrequited-love#slide/0