Hello,
I was recently viewing vintage container train pics from the early to mid 80's and came across a Sealand COFC train on Chessie in NY. I noticed that the containers were already mounted on flatbed trailers which of course were then piggybacked on 85' (or 89') flats. Why would these containers be shipped with these trailers instead of stand alone? I believe this particular train was headed for Chicago probably for interchange, but still, why ship all of that extra weight (not to mention wind drag) when these containers could be mounted on trailers at their final destination like normal? Thank you for any replies.
-MLG4'8.5"
Good question. It was the widespead advent of double stacking that finally killed the practice of shipping the containers on piggyback road trailers on flat cars. Resistance to change somehow melts away when $$ savings are recognized.
My understanding was that shippers were concerned that it might take slightly longer to transfer the container from a car to a truck chassis than to unload the trailer from the flat car. Or maybe it was worry that a chassis might not be immediately available at the destination.
" The first "Intermodal" freight dates back to pre- WWII. It started to gain favor in the 1950's. THe first piggyback operations were started on the cusp of WWII, It was the NHRR that was transporting trailers on flatcars. This first photo is probably early 1960's ( judging by the IH tractor in the picture(?) The picture is of a MoPac Operation ( MPRR operated its own trucking operation) Gantry cranes were an innovation that allowed traillers to lifted on to or off of the rail cars. The picture shows regular flat cars utilized for the rail movement.
http://www.wheelsotime.com/display/ShowImage?imageUrl=/storage/post-images/2011/nov-dec/early-TOFC-web.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1324498228515
The original method used by many early piggy back terminals was the method illustrated in this picture. A older tractor was used to back the trailers across a ramp and onto the flat cars. As the technology got better railcars were built with a railring to keep the wheel on the car. It was still a tricky operation to back a trailer across a string of cars. See the following linked photo. [You referred to it as 'Circus-style loading'.]
http://www.wheelsotime.com/display/ShowImage?imageUrl=/storage/post-images/2011/nov-dec/early-COFC-MP-web.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1324498180883
As tchnology advanced within the Rail and Road industries, handling of trailers and containers advanced as well. My recollection is that Trailer Train Corp got started around the mid 1950's(?).
As trailer lengths increased so did the ability of the railcars to handle the newer trailer and container lengths. In the 1960's well-style cars appeared to allow the double stacking of containers on certain routes. In the late 1960's while in Vietnam, we hauled Containers up highway 1 between Danang and Phu Bai. We used trailers with a container tied to the flat bed trailer. The military received 40' Sea-Land Containers from the Port, and 20' Boxes ( Military refered to them as CONEX Boxes,) to carry supplies.
If you are reeally interested in the subject; I'd recomend a book for you to check out: "Piggyback and Containers: A History of Rail Intermodal on America's Steel Highways" by David J. DeBoer.
Chicago was the King of Highway interchange for intermodal shipments. It was quicker to dray a box from one carriers terminal to another carrier than it was to switch and interchange the car by rail.
Part of the function of intermodal terminals such as CSX's new one at North Baltimore, OH has been to consolidate boxes on cars to facilitate direct interchange of trains to other carriers, as well as receiving trains from other carriers and reloading the boxes to serve trains to the varios CSX destination.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
There may have been an imbalance of chassis requiring TOFC dispatch. Were they going east or west?. West coast is claiming a shortage of Chassis last week.
Back in the 1970's and 1980's there were a lot of locations that only had circus style piggyback ramps and not container cranes. If you wanted to ship a container to one of hose ramps you had to do it on a chassis so it could be unloaded. Same with loading. A load originating at a location with only a circus style ramp would have to be loaded with a chassis. Yes that is inefficient, which is why those limited locations were closed back in the 1990's.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Chassis. Balancing out chassis is not trivial today and was a huge pain in the early days of double stacking.
Each container shipper had to provide and maintain their own pool of chassis at each terminal they operated out of. Chassis with boxes would go out of the terminal to consignees/shippers and sometimes not come back in a timely fashion, for example. Traffic flow would also cause chassis imbalance.
RRs started pushing chassis pools. Double stacking started replacing TOFC. Methods of bundling chassis for shipping "light" between terminals were developed.
All of this has reduces the number of boxes on chassis moving TOFC these days.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
These are all great responses. I also heard that in some densly populated urban centers, space was at a premium and there was simply not enough real estate for thousands of empty chassis sitting around. Yes, I did hear about the shortage of chassis nowadays.....time to buy stock!
MLG4812 These are all great responses. I also heard that in some densly populated urban centers, space was at a premium and there was simply not enough real estate for thousands of empty chassis sitting around.
These containers may have been enroute to a location that had a piggyback ramp but no means to hoist containers on and off flatcars. Or... the trailers themselves were being shipped for reposition purposes.
samfp1943 The first "Intermodal" freight dates back to pre- WWII.
The first "Intermodal" freight dates back to pre- WWII.
The first? I don't know your source but I have seen pictures of much, much earlier piggyback operations. I'm not sure of the date but the "trailers" were actually horse-drawn wagons and there may have been accompanying stock cars to handle the motive power at the destination. IIRC, it was a New Haven service into New York.
ChuckAllen, TX
very interesting. Used to see many "pig" cars with Dad in Frisco yards. Now BNSF has a couple of cranes and trains are all double stacked intermodal. Hardly see even a boxcar any longer.
cefinkjr samfp1943 The first "Intermodal" freight dates back to pre- WWII. The first? I don't know your source but I have seen pictures of much, much earlier piggyback operations. I'm not sure of the date but the "trailers" were actually horse-drawn wagons and there may have been accompanying stock cars to handle the motive power at the destination. IIRC, it was a New Haven service into New York.
In "The American Railway" written about 1889, mention is made of the Long Island Railroad Company providing this service for farmers. The wagons were carried on flatcars, the horses in boxcars, and a coach was provided for the farmers and drivers.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Whatever happened to circus ramps every little town had them
trackrat888Whatever happened to circus ramps every little town had them
trackrat888 Whatever happened to circus ramps every little town had them
The Circus moved to the big towns and changed their business model.
Paul of Covington In "The American Railway" written about 1889, mention is made of the Long Island Railroad Company providing this service for farmers. The wagons were carried on flatcars, the horses in boxcars, and a coach was provided for the farmers and drivers.
Excerpt from Trains magazine (1957)
In January 1885, the Corbin management established another first for the Long Island, when it began operation of the famous “farmers’ trains” – the first American use of the piggyback idea. Roads on the island were poor, and LIRR's flat car service for loaded produce wagons offered farmersa means of getting their shipments to New York markets in a fraction of the over-the-road time. The first of the farmer's trains loaded at Albertson Station on the Locust Valley Branch (now the Oyster Bay Branch) on January 10, 1885. Two wagons were loaded on each of eight flat cars, and a like number of horse cars were provided for the teams. A passenger car for teamsters was included in the trains. The train took 2 hours for the 20-mile run to Long Island City, where the wagons were ferried across the East River to New York.On a second trial run a week later, LIRR hauled the wagons free and provided a lunch en route for the farmers. The farmers' trains quickly became a popular institution, cabbage being the principal commodity carried. A year later LIRR ordered 10 flat cars designed for carrying the wagons and 8 cars built expressly for carrying horses. A few years later trains carrying as many as 75 wagons were reported as not unusual. LIRR’s rate for the service was $4 per wagon, including wagon, horses and driver, to Long Island City and return. Loading and unloading were done by the farmers. Improved Queens County roads brought an end to the farmers’ trains in the late 1890’s. For a time LIRR used the specially designed equipment to transport the horses and carriages of wealthy summer residents to the rapidly developing “watering places” along the island’s South Shore.
Back then containers weren't that common and cars to carry them directly weren't either. Trailers could be handled.
You still see a few of these in a domestic intermodal train today. Maybe a handful of these at the most. In many cases it will be a 45'/40'/20' international sea container carrying imports bound to a midwest location on a domestic intermodal train.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.