Do any of the trackside detectors sense a broken flange? I've seen 3 in all my years of rail fanning. The last 1 or 2 I called the company (UP) and they great fully thanked me. The clunk clunk clunk noise is loud enough to drown out most any Vanhalen song with the volume up to 3/4. Since I know they can cause a derailment I will always stop to call the RR no matter how late my next pizza delivery is.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
CAZEPHYR Trains do jump the track. The PRR had two K4's eastbound on the down hill grade above Horseshoe curve leave the inside track on the and cleared the outside track many years ago due to not controlling the downhill speed. It never touched the outside track. It is rare and involves a lot of speed. RR
Trains do jump the track. The PRR had two K4's eastbound on the down hill grade above Horseshoe curve leave the inside track on the and cleared the outside track many years ago due to not controlling the downhill speed. It never touched the outside track.
It is rare and involves a lot of speed.
RR
Two K4's airborne? WOW! That must have been a sight to see although, given the location, it's unlikely anyone was there to see it. Except the crews and I kind of doubt they were enjoying the view.
Do you have any documentation of this?
ChuckAllen, TX
Boyd Do any of the trackside detectors sense a broken flange? I've seen 3 in all my years of rail fanning. The last 1 or 2 I called the company (UP) and they great fully thanked me. The clunk clunk clunk noise is loud enough to drown out most any Vanhalen song with the volume up to 3/4. Since I know they can cause a derailment I will always stop to call the RR no matter how late my next pizza delivery is.
cefinkjrDo you have any documentation of this?
Two other "documented" examples where locomotives apparently became airborne: the N&W J accident at Tug Fork (discussed on the Web) and a NYC Pacific accident detailed in Staufer's NYC Later Power (will find specific page later).
UPDATE: pp176-177, wreck at Shiloh, OH June 25, 1847. Took a crossover at what was probably full speed. Lead Pacific buried up to the cab.
cefinkjr CAZEPHYR Trains do jump the track. The PRR had two K4's eastbound on the down hill grade above Horseshoe curve leave the inside track on the and cleared the outside track many years ago due to not controlling the downhill speed. It never touched the outside track. It is rare and involves a lot of speed. RR Two K4's airborne? WOW! That must have been a sight to see although, given the location, it's unlikely anyone was there to see it. Except the crews and I kind of doubt they were enjoying the view. Do you have any documentation of this?
http://www.gendisasters.com/data1/pa/trains/altoona-trainwreckfeb1947.htm
- Paul North.
edblysard In fact, it is the residue cars, cars that have a small amount of product left in them that cause sloshing issues, the baffels in the cars don't slow or stop the residue.
In fact, it is the residue cars, cars that have a small amount of product left in them that cause sloshing issues, the baffels in the cars don't slow or stop the residue.
Hmmm. Seems to me if there was enough product in the tank car to have a meaningful slosh effect, the customer would be a bit unhappy that they didn't get all the product they paid for.
Typically, how big is the heel in the tank?
The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) today announced the cause of the February 16, 2015 CSX/Plains All American derailment in Mount Carbon, W.Va. The accident resulted in 27 derailed cars, a fire that ignited immediately and eventually burned for days and the evacuation of hundreds of local residents.
FRA was the lead agency tasked with responding to and investigating the February accident. Following a thorough investigation, the FRA announced the cause of the derailment to be a broken rail, resulting from a vertical split head rail defect. The defect that eventually resulted in the derailment was missed by CSX, and their contractor, Sperry Rail Service, on two separate inspections in the months leading up to the accident.
"The defect that eventually resulted in the derailment was missed by CSX, and their contractor, Sperry Rail Service, on two separate inspections in the months leading up to the accident. "
Missed or too small to be detected or acted upon.??? Boy is that a loaded sentence.
mudchicken "The defect that eventually resulted in the derailment was missed by CSX, and their contractor, Sperry Rail Service, on two separate inspections in the months leading up to the accident. " Missed or too small to be detected or acted upon.??? Boy is that a loaded sentence.
Have to agree!
All of which presents another question - does rail get tested prior to leaving the rail manufacturer for the same type defects that carrier testing (and Sperry) reveals for rail that is installed and in use?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
What I have read is that the inspectors interpreted the defect to be a simple railhead problem, not a larger crack that could result in a broken rail.
The press, of course, has run with this and put out articles to the effect that CSX 'knew about the disasterous defect months before the wreck and did nothing'.
dehusmanOil train fires are very bad, but they are not the apocalyptic events the media portrays them to be. Just look at the picture.
I would have phrased this a bit differently to accentuate the point being made. Much of the anti-oil-train propaganda has been of the "Do you live inthe BLAST ZONE?" type, but blast (both as normally understood as an industrial hazard, and as observed in riailroad accidents such as LPG BLEVEs followed by combustion) is very notably absent.
Perhaps someone can link to that 'famous' video of the derailment - I think it was the one inWest Virginia' - where the guy was filming with his phone and the fireball goes up and out and out and out, looking almost thermonuclear in extent. It is notable that the only sound with all that fire is a sound like ripping cloth - no booms, no bangs, no supersonic critical-mixture combustion/detonation. There might be some transient problem with the heat pulse from that much airborne combustion, but it won't last long or, probably, set anyone's shingle or house on fire (It might soften house paint for a couple of minutes, but it will readhere as it cools...)
The pool fires are dangerous if you're in them, as Dave noted, and there could be danger if a large number of inflammable structures immediately surround the accident site (as I believe occurred at Lac Megantic).
I am not sure, though, that the 'actual' explosion issue with Bakken crude has not already been addressed through approaches like degassing. The 'problem' was that light crude with a large percentage of unstratified, dissolved light constituents might expand in a breach with fire in a manner similar (if less violent) to a BLEVE (you have the same disseminated nucleate expansion accelerating the liquid mass) followed by reasonably quick carburetion and ignition (and heat-evolution-driven faster expansion of the combustion plume) Remove the gassing elements from the crude -- much like removing the carburetion from a can of Coke -- and the tendency to foam massively on breach of the 'containment', and the associated possibility of critical-mixture formation, is greatly reduced.
dehusman For all the people talking about how horribly "explosive" the oil trains are and how they are going to "blow up" cities, I wish they would take a long look at this picture. Note that the snow is melted only in the immediate area of the derailement. the only structure that was damaged was immediately adacent to and downhill of the derailment. The biggest burned area outside the immediate derailmnet area was where the oil flowed downhill. Was there a blast crater? No. Was there significant damage 100 yards away from the derailed cars? No. (On other pictures there is a house on the other side of the creek from that stand of trees at the bottom of the picture that was not damaged.) The snow wasn't even melted off the cars 2 car lengths away from the pile. If you look at any of the oil train derailments there is the exact same pattern. Really big, really hot fire at the derailment site. Really big fireballs going up (not out). Fire damage where the liquid oil flows downhill away from the derailment. Structural damage immediately adjacent to the derailment. Structural damage more than a hundred yards away from the derailment site. Not so much. Oil train fires are very bad, but they are not the apocalyptic events the media portrays them to be. Just look at the picture.
BaltACD mudchicken "The defect that eventually resulted in the derailment was missed by CSX, and their contractor, Sperry Rail Service, on two separate inspections in the months leading up to the accident. " Missed or too small to be detected or acted upon.??? Boy is that a loaded sentence. Have to agree! All of which presents another question - does rail get tested prior to leaving the rail manufacturer for the same type defects that carrier testing (and Sperry) reveals for rail that is installed and in use?
Euclid The hazard is real and not just a fabrication by the media.
The same threat exists with every gasolene and heating oil truck that we take for granted as we see them on the highways and byways every day!
mudchicken BaltACD mudchicken "The defect that eventually resulted in the derailment was missed by CSX, and their contractor, Sperry Rail Service, on two separate inspections in the months leading up to the accident. " Missed or too small to be detected or acted upon.??? Boy is that a loaded sentence. All of which presents another question - does rail get tested prior to leaving the rail manufacturer for the same type defects that carrier testing (and Sperry) reveals for rail that is installed and in use? The answer is yes [as seen in Pueblo], plus a few by-hand audigage tests rarely performed in the outside world. Vertical split head and piped rail are not that common anymore, which makes the comment all that more interesting.
BaltACD mudchicken "The defect that eventually resulted in the derailment was missed by CSX, and their contractor, Sperry Rail Service, on two separate inspections in the months leading up to the accident. " Missed or too small to be detected or acted upon.??? Boy is that a loaded sentence. All of which presents another question - does rail get tested prior to leaving the rail manufacturer for the same type defects that carrier testing (and Sperry) reveals for rail that is installed and in use?
The answer is yes [as seen in Pueblo], plus a few by-hand audigage tests rarely performed in the outside world. Vertical split head and piped rail are not that common anymore, which makes the comment all that more interesting.
Sometimes those kinds of cracks/ splits start small, stay that way for a long time, then suddenly grow/ expand due to the increasing stress concentration, and finally rupture and break. Unless there's rust on the inside of the crack, it's hard to tell the timeline that was involved - and the absence of rust may indicate that it was very sudden.
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