My Daugher and Son-in-law gave me a birthday present of a RR artifact that my Son-in-law came across at a business he calls on his sales route.
Normally, this type of sign is turned 45° to form an "X" rather than this one with a "+" in a circle.
The sign is metal and has been painted a few times with a brush and possibly by spray. The metal is embossed such that the black circle, "+" symbol, and 2 "R" letters are raised above the yellow background by about 1/8 inch. It is 24-inches in diameter and has two mounting holes 18 inches apart in the center of the vertical line of the "+".
I can find no labels on it or any manufacturer name or dates (if there was any at one time, it has been painted over and is now well hidden). The back is rusty and has been painted over at least once or twice without removing the rust.
I am assumming it is from a date prior to some Federally mandated regulation on what RR Crossing warning signs are to be.
Does anyone remember seeing this type of sign in the past or have any information about it?
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
An oldie but a goodie. It does precede MUTCD (the nationwide standard for signage). I'm pretty sure I've seen one or two in real life.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I've seen it - just can't remember where or when - most likely in my childhood and probably dates from the late 30's.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
There had to be tens of thousands of them. They were road side signes that warned you that you were approaching a railroad crossing in your car. Then when you got to the crossing the was the familiar cross bucks, flashing lights bell or whatever was approriate for the crossing. I remember them in the 70s, so it may not be that old.
Paul
Dayton and Mad River RR
At one time very common, I saw these in Minnesota Wisconsin and Michigan among others in the 1950's. You will see one such sign in the movie Anatomy of a Murder which was filmed on Michigan's Upper Peninsula in 1959.
I've seen similar, with the horizontal bar a little higher than center. Definitely from an earlier time.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR I've seen similar, with the horizontal bar a little higher than center. Definitely from an earlier time.
Seems many of" older heads" can recall the sign Posted by the OP..Semper Vaporo.
According to this you can probably date the sign in question to the period of the 1920's possibly some what older(?) You coud probably make a case that these signs lasted into the 1950's or beyond as they were replaced and 'updated' according to newly passed regulations?
I found some of the following information from a vintage rr warning sight site: linked here:
@ http://www.roadtrafficsigns.com/railroad-crossing-crossbuck-sign-history
"Cataphotes" or "cats-eyes". So that's what those reflectors were called! I recall seeing old road signage with "cats-eyes" when I was growing up in Northern New Jersey. (1960's) These were still on back or side roads that didn't get a lot of traffic. Who knows, they might still be there.
Ever see a "Cataphote" ring? The Virginia Historic Society's museum here in Richmond has one on display. It's a ring with a BIG reflector on it dating from the 1920's. In the days before car turn signals a driver would wear it on the left hand so the hand signals could be seen after dark, the ring would reflect the following cars headlights.
Anyone remember hand signals for driving? The last time I had to use them was when the signal relay in my '73 Volkswagen blew.
Firelock76Anyone remember hand signals for driving?
Sure. Had to learn them. Not sure I ever actually used them - turn signals were standard equipment by the time I took driver's ed.
I have a stop sign that dates back to the "cat's eyes" days. When I first acquired it, it was yellow with black letters. I refinished it to red with white letters. The words "FULL STOP" are highlighted with cat's eyes. That would seem to imply that if the sign just said "STOP" maybe a full stop wasn't required. Or they were having trouble with people making "California Stops" even back in the day...
Two of the catamotes are apparently damaged and no longer reflect.
Well do I remember the yellow with black lettering stop signs. And, the handbooks for motorists had the hand signals to be used before turning, slowing, or stopping.
Once when I was riding with my best friend's mother, she stuck just her hand out the window (it was cold outside) before turning, and then asked if that was a good signal; I told her that it was not. One difficulty with the hand signals was that the driver had to crank the window down so the left arm could be stuck out the window. I wonder how many people driving now would understand the signals.
Early turn signals were add-ons that had a wheel that was turned by the steering column to cancel the signal, and lights that would be mounted on the bumpers.
In 1961, I was driving a 1950 car which had, of course, a starter button on the dash. One day I stopped at a service station and a young boy looked inside and asked "How do you start it?" The most interesting starter arrangement was the much earlier one of having a button on the floor to the right of the gas pedal. This was a great improvement over going to the front of the car to work the starter.
Johnny
Prior to the introduction of the crossbuck, a lot of crossings were marked with only this sign:
LOOK OUT FOR THE CARS
Deggesty [snipped - PDN] . . . In 1961, I was driving a 1950 car which had, of course, a starter button on the dash. One day I stopped at a service station and a young boy looked inside and asked "How do you start it?" . . .
I had a renter with a push-button start on the dash about a year ago. "Wow! Just like Dad's '50 Ford!" I said.
Sometimes it's fun to be old enough to remember.
EuclidPrior to the introduction of the crossbuck,
We've still got one (on a camp road) that looks something like this:
I don't recall the exact wording on that one, and I'm not going to drive two hours (one way) to find it...
Tree68, those look like some of the earliest grade crossing warnings that go back to the 1860's. I doubt they're that old, but they sure are an archaic design.
Euclid Prior to the introduction of the crossbuck, a lot of crossings were marked with only this sign: LOOK OUT FOR THE CARS
I remember seeing that in New Jersey in the mid '70's, as well as
LOOK OUT FOR THE LOCOMOTIVE
I believe they were in addition to the standard crossbucks.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
In Malone, NY, back in 1988 there was a crossbuck with slightly different lettering. One board had "RAILROAD CROSSING". The other read "LOOK OUT for the LOCOMOTIVE". The boards were at a shallow angle, perhaps 30degrees in my slide. I can't recall now whether it was on the old Rutland or the NYC alignment. Both railroads were long gone by then.
In the 1930's a local inventor Alfonzo Billups, created and had installed at the ICRR crossing of Miss. Hwy #7 at Grenada, Ms. A very large, animated Railroad Grade Crossing sign. It was decorated with a neon lite Skull and Crossbones at its center, straddling both lanes of the highway, while visible to approaching motorists. It even had arrows to indicate the direction from which the train was approaching. The sign also had a siren to alert motorists of approaching trains.
See link @ http://awalker1829.livejournal.com/66322.html
For a pretty good You Tube animatation of the Billups Crossing Sign:
See link @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGhFHKtDhns&feature=youtube_gdata_player
It was the mainline of the ICRR, and hosted practically all the North/South freight, and passenger trains between Jackson, Ms., and Memphis Tn. It was in place there, until it was taken down in the 1970's.
Train speed for the passenger trains was at least 90 mph...
The local lore was that those passenger trains traveled so fast through towns; of that area; the hammers on the bells on the crossings, only got to half- cocked before the train had cleared all the crossings in the towns as they passed through.
Sam, very few freights except local freights went through Grenada; the through freights went through the Delta, coming onto the direct Memphis-Jackson line at North Jackson.
The speed limit (after the IC issued its dictum) for passneger trains was 79 mph--but this was not observed; from personal observation in the cab of #1 one evening in 1965, I saw the speedometer hanging around 90 mph (I rode the engine from Memphis to Grenada that evening, and went to my coach there). Of course, coming in to and leaving Grenada the train did not run that fast since Grenada was a sceduled stop for all passenger trains.
I do not think that it was still there in the late sixties.
Deggesty Sam, very few freights except local freights went through Grenada; the through freights went through the Delta, coming onto the direct Memphis-Jackson line at North Jackson. The speed limit (after the IC issued its dictum) for passneger trains was 79 mph--but this was not observed; from personal observation in the cab of #1 one evening in 1965, I saw the speedometer hanging around 90 mph (I rode the engine from Memphis to Grenada that evening, and went to my coach there). Of course, coming in to and leaving Grenada the train did not run that fast since Grenada was a sceduled stop for all passenger trains. I do not think that it was still there in the late sixties.
Johnnie:
Please excuse me; I'm working with old memories, and recollections that are not what they once were. .
I think that the Billups Crossing Sign was a victim in the late 1960's of the change of local traffic patterns. I-55 was in the final stages of construction in'68/'69 and 70. I was finished early to the Vaiden Ms exit and traffic used Hwy 51 south to Canton, where it was back on I-55 and on to Jackson. I seem to recall that the first 'enhancement' to go off 'The Sign' was that god-awful Federal Q siren(?). I do not thing it made it much past 1970(?). I used to deliver to Binswanger Glass at Grenada, and Hwy 7 was on my route there.
I do remember the IC's Passenger trains on that line...They went though North Mississippi at terrific speeds ( I was given a cab ride in 1969); I remember the pace was a lot faster than I would have imagined. Particulary, over the line laid with stick rails. But the Crews on the 'City' and the 'Panama' had most of the senority on that part of the railroad, many I recall were pushing 40 or 50 plus years...and regardless of any 'dictums' from the railroad, those guys knew the schedules, with the mulitple 'E's, gave them power in reserve to make up whatever thay needed. The schedule was all that seemed to matter. I never heard any Roundhouse stories that an engine crew was ever punished for going too fast.
Yes, Sam, you speak of men with much seniority--they obviously knew the road and what they could do--and what they had better not do for safety's sake. Sitting in the middle seat of the cab and blowing for the crossings as long as I could tell a whistle post from a milepost (same shape), I trusted the engineer's judgement. As it was, we made up very little of the time that had been lost before we left Memphis. There were some crossings that are so close together that it was impossible to blow a proper signal for each crossing; I would use the last blast for one crossing as the first blast for the next crossing--and the engineer did not correct me. The only fatality was that of a dog that tried to outrun us on the track.
Nine years later, I was going from Chicago to Fort Lauderdale, and woke up in the middle of the night on the ACL's Bow Line--and it seemed that we were running faster than fifty-nine miles an hour in that dark territory.
The "Billups Crossing" was a the subject of a photo and caption in Trains in 2003:
- Paul North.
I watched that You Tube video samfp1943 posted of the Billups crossing.
My God, if that thing didn't get your attention NOTHING would!
You DESERVED to die!
On the other hand, I could just image all the noise complaints it'd get if they built it nowadays.
Firelock76 I watched that You Tube video samfp1943 posted of the Billups crossing. My God, if that thing didn't get your attention NOTHING would! You DESERVED to die! On the other hand, I could just image all the noise complaints it'd get if they built it nowadays.
Especially if it was installed where it is really needed - high volume (both train & highway) quiet zones.
I have a sign just like that in my garage.
Karl Scribner
Sunfield Twp. Michigan
Kentucky Southern Railway
Firelock76On the other hand, I could just image all the noise complaints it'd get if they built it nowadays.
"But you wanted to get rid of the train horns..."
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