EXTRA-BOARD

[cabforward]

i could not find a "search" window to look for old threads on this topic..

 

i have heard different info about 'e-b' policies over the years.. maybe it was due to changing conditions in the job market for r.r. crews.. a few years ago, the 'news' (i dont know where, it was stated someplace) said conductors were retiring in large numbers and new hires were desperately needed.. the new hires were made, i think and then i read in  several r.r. job descr that, after probation, conductors must agree to upgrade to an engineer position inside a year.. at another time (maybe years earlier), i read that 'e-b' personnel might expect to remain in that status for 10 years and more.. i also read that moving up from the 'e-b' meant that a crew member would achieve 'regular assignment' status.. no more moving around, but continue on routine functions in one or more roles: industrial switching, long-haul, yard switching, etc..

how are the situations now? are conductors badly needed? must they upgrade in a year to engineer? is it hard to upgrade from the 'e-b' to 'regular assignment', if that term is still used? what is the maximum days for working the 'e-b'? i think it used to be 20 days.. does 20-days apply to full-time and 'e-b' crewmen?  do these policies vary between r.rs.? what flexibility is allowed from the fed. govt. and unions?

[jeffhergert]

Most unionized railroads have contracts that can force a trainman (those hired after 1985) to engine service.  It's determined by the need for engineers and seniority.  If you don't want to go to engine service, as long as there are "younger" (in seniority) people willing to go, they won't force you.  If there aren't enough willing applicants, then they can start forcing people.  Where I work there has always been enough people so that they haven't had to force anyone.  This has allowed some to stay in train service, but in the future they could still be forced to engine service.

I think the year requirement came because there were cases of people going into engine service before they had a year of service.  We have a few who finished their trainman training period and became qualified on a Friday.  The next Monday they started engineer training.  Most were craft transfers from other departments so they had a little idea of how the railroad worked.  A few were people off the street initially.

Working the extra board depends on seniority.  If you have enough, you can still work the extra board if you want.  If you don't have enough, you work it because you can't hold anything more desirable.  

Depending on where you are, most assignments are irregular.  That is, they don't have assigned start times or regular days off.  Yard and local freights are regular jobs.  Some terminals have a lot of these, others don't.  Through freight pool assignments are irregular, no regular start time or days off.  The difference between a pool assignment and the extra board is that the pool guys know where they are going, what trains they have to protect.  They have somewhat more predictability in when they are going to work.  Extra boards protect vacancies on a variety of pools and local freights.  They also may protect yard jobs if there isn't a separate switchman's extra board.  Extra boards may also handle certain jobs like temporary (those not expected to work long enough to bulletin) work trains, dog catching, short turns such as spotting/pulling unit trains at facilities between terminals etc.  (When the extra board is exhausted, they use pool crew(s) to do those above jobs.  Some places some of those listed jobs might go to the pool anyway.  Depends on the contract(s) in effect.)

Some prefer working the extra board because you can get a variety of assignments.  You can work more, since the extra board usually turns faster than a pool board and make more money.  Only limits to how much you work is hours of service limits. 

Some places are hiring.  For example, I've read that the CP (US) has been hiring and new people are holding assignments that normally need many years to hold.  It just depends when you hire out.  If you hireout at the beginning of the frenzy, you have more seniority than those hired later.  The last few hired are going to be those who may bounce around on a seniority district, if not out right furloughed.  

Jeff  

[BaltACD]

Remember when WORKING for a railroad - You work for money, not prestige.  There is no prestige.

[jeffhergert]

BaltACD

Remember when WORKING for a railroad - You work for money, not prestige.  There is no prestige.

 

I don't know, I think there's plenty of pestige out there.  I don't know how many times at crossings people waiting for my train have given me the sign that I'm Number One.

What, you mean that's not what it means?

Jeff 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Someone else here (maybe Jeff ?) once quoted an engineer (I think) as saying:

"I came for the dollars, not for the 'cents' " (say it out loud).

Jeff, great explanation of a complicated subject in very few words.  

- Paul North. 

[dekemd]

A friend of mine has over 20 years of service with CSX and he recently left pool service to go back to the extra board.  He said he  just wasn't making enough money on the pool board anymore.

[cabforward]

thanks for all of your replies.. a job has prestige if you want it and work for it.. it might lose its shine after a while; then it may only be about money, bennies, time off (whats that?) and ease of budgeting expenses and future goals.. it was prestige to me because i never could line myself up to compete for it.. when i was young, it was about eyesight, and i was 20/400 with correction.. when i was older, it was about lifting 80 lbs. or more and carrying it a distance.. in case it was necessary to carry a coupler knuckle from the engine to disabled car(s).. i had no idea that the extra board was so rugged (short sleeping hours, distant travel [chauffered] to protected positions and maybe hauling a replacement coupler many cars down the line, and attaching it to the device and insure its in working order.. i knew about working in bad weather; at the time, it didnt bother me, not that it made a difference.. when young, i would stand by a track and wait for a train when i thought i had the schedule figured out.. when driving, i would come to a crossing and look both ways, of course.. if a train was nearby, i would wait in the traffic lane and if no cars were waiting, i would wait to see if the train would move.. if i saw a distant headlight, i would wait to see if i could tell the train was moving, and sit there, again, if i wasnt blocking traffic.. if a train passed, i would study the engine colors and road name.. i would read every name on every car as it passed; not to memorize them, just to see what they said.. i was interested in the "logos" of the road names and their slogans.. now, reciting the names and slogans seem like poetry to me.. this sounds creepy, but i never waved to a passing crew member on a train.. i was jealous of the job they had and couldnt wait to grow up and qualify for a crewmember position, but never did.. this is why i believe in reincarnation.. i want to come back and try again..

[CShaveRR]

When I hired out, I was second in seniority of a class of 15 or so who passed the rules test.  I had a choice of which extra board I wanted to be on, and decided to stay in the Chicago Freight Terminal, rather than go to the Wisconsin road board.  So for the first few months, I got a lot of jobs in different areas around Chicago, and (because I was so willing) took calls for the road--both Galena and Wisconsin--as well.  In fact, I think I worked more road trips than yard jobs.

After about three months of marriage to the telephone (no cell-phones or even pagers back then), I found that somebody younger than I was working afternoons on the Hump.  I took care of that, and became a job-holding employee pretty much from that time forward.  There was one post-holiday slowdown when night jos were abolished and afternoon jobs cut back to five days a week, when I spent a couple of days on the extra board because I couldn't hold any regular jobs of my liking.  Other workers found themselves laid off for a while that winter.

Toward the end of my career, I decided to do a little "sharpshooting" to keep the money coming in but get the days off that I wanted.  The result was that I--numero uno in car retarder operator seniority--spent several days on the CRO extra board.  The upside was that I was able to get out and go where I needed to at the time.  But I couldn't get off the board quickly enough, and had to endure two straight nights in a tower that I wasn't particularly fond of, the second night of which caused me to not be rested for the job I had taken for the following day.
Even that had its upside, though--there were several new hires (relatively speaking) who'd never seen me work any tower but Tower A, and they were amazed that I was any good in B or C.

[jeffhergert]

cabforward

i had no idea that the extra board was so rugged (short sleeping hours, distant travel [chauffered] to protected positions and maybe hauling a replacement coupler many cars down the line, and attaching it to the device and insure its in working order.. i knew about working in bad weather; at the time, it didnt bother me, not that it made a difference.. 

That's not exclusive to working the extra board.  Those conditions also apply to any trainmen (and enginemen) working over the road freights.

Usually the extra board turns faster.  However, there are times when it doesn't.  The pool boards sometimes turn faster than the extra boards.  In those cases you might make more working the pool, if you can hold it.  Many places have guarantees on jobs or boards.  (All our trainmen's boards have a guarantee.  On the engineer's side, only the extra board and local/yard jobs have it.  The road pools do not.)  When things are slow, sometimes on the extra board you might make about the same as the pool but working less because of the guarantee.  (Also depends on the amount of guarantee.  It's not uniform from one company to another.  Even if they hold the same master union contract, some portions might be covered by local agreements.  We have decent guarantees, I've heard some other Class 1's don't.)   

The downside is when they start paying too much guarantee they start to cut off jobs.

Jeff  

[samfp1943]

jeffhergert

 

BaltACD

Remember when WORKING for a railroad - You work for money, not prestige.  There is no prestige.

 

 

 

 

I don't know, I think there's plenty of pestige out there.  I don't know how many times at crossings people waiting for my train have given me the sign that I'm Number One.

What, you mean that's not what it means?

Jeff 

 

Jeff: Those signs mean the same to truckers as well as to railroaders ! 

That 'Other One",  I can attest to, is NOT an invitation to an Italian Wine and Cheese Party.