When did segragation end in passenger railroads?

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When did segragation end in passenger railroads?
Posted by trackrat888 on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 1:40 PM

Mid 1960s or earler? BTW it was common to have separate mens and womens cars in the north along with seperate waiting rooms.

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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 6:30 PM

Legal racial segregation -- where by state law railroads had to provide separate seating and other accomodations at depots and on trains between the races -- ended in 1954 when the Supreme Court in Brown vs Board of Education over ruled its own earlier rulings that permitted "separate but equal" facilities.  The court basically said that separations by its mere fact meant inequality -- else why have it (plus who gets to decide it).

Now not all states hung on to legal segregation until 1954.  I recall reading an article in Classic Trains about the Cairo (IL) bridge on the IC and that trains going north in the 1930s or 40s as soon as they crossed into Illinois, the African American passengers were now free to sit where they pleased rather than sit where the state laws south of the river told them to sit.  

So things like separately marked waiting rooms, rest rooms, "Jim Crow" passenger cars and the like, would have lost their legal basis in 1954, not to say they disappeared at the snap of a Supreme Court justice's fingers.

De facto segregation many would argue still exists, but certainly even without the technical mandate of law still was a powerful force well into the 1960s and beyond.  

I assume you are talking about the separate waiting rooms, seating, bathrooms, water fountains and the like that were features of the South -- that should have ended in 1954.

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Posted by trackrat888 on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 6:57 PM

Should have and in reality are 2 diffrent things. MS and LA had there "State Soverinety Commisions" which enforced segragation laws up untill 1970. The State Soverainty Commisons kept files and spied on anyone who did civil rights work and handed over files to the KKK and others who would then take justice into there own hands as in "Mississipie Burning". The FBI was not always the good guys either as FBI agents saw the Civil Rights movement including MLK Himself as a Communist Front. Cointelpro was/is a FBI program to keep a eye on radicals during the 1960s-1970s and worked and in hand with the southern state soverianty commitiees. As far as railroads themselves they were in a long state of passenger decline with the exception of the Southern Railway "Cresent" passenger train which was the pride and joy of Graham ClaytoSouthern/N&W/NS

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 7:29 PM

Desegregation of station facilities came to Mississippi some time in 1964. I saw the change in one station on the IC's main line--I remember particularly selling tickets there to colored people who were in what had been the waiting room for white passengers.

No, I was never employed by any railroad. But, it was possible to do some things when you knew railroad employees. Such would be almost impossible now.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 9:08 PM

Many railroad stations and bus stations had been designed and built with segregation in mind, and there was confusion as to how to use all the vacant space left over when only one waiting room, and only one pair of restrooms, was needed.  In many cases, there was a deliberate slowness in removing the "colored" and "white" signs.  I distinctly remember going into a laundromat in eastern North Carolina in 1966 and finding the signs in place.  North Carolina was considered one of the more progressive Southern states.

Tom

Note: This post edited to remove the name of the city in N.C.  I am not certain that I identified it correctly. 

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, January 22, 2015 6:51 AM

Segregation of public accomodations and discrimination on the basis of race, religion or ethnicity was made illegal by the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Thursday, January 22, 2015 8:09 AM

Deggesty

Desegregation of station facilities came to Mississippi some time in 1964. I saw the change in one station on the IC's main line--I remember particularly selling tickets there to colored people who were in what had been the waiting room for white passengers.

No, I was never employed by any railroad. But, it was possible to do some things when you knew railroad employees. Such would be almost impossible now.

 

Growing up in Memphis, Tn, and living in a region that was known as the Mid-South; vestiges of segeration were evident all over the area well into the late 19860's..it was the "enforcement' aspect that gradully went away.      The 'White' and 'Colored Only' signs seemed slow to disappear over things like gas station rest rooms, and in particular water fountains [on the 'White' (only) side the water was cooled, on the Colored (only) it was simply run throught the fountains plumbing, but generally was not cooled)].

Doctor's Offices had 'white' and 'colored' waiting rooms with seperate entrances. they morphed into 'Well Patients' and 'Sick Patients( colds,coughs,etc) waiting areas. 

Until the late 1950's or early 1960's Memphis maintained a 'split' Police Dept. White Cops would not make calls in 'Black" areas and similarly, Black Officers would not arrest Whites or patrol those areas. They would hold the person til a White Officer arrived to make the arrest. Reciprocally, the reverse was true with White officers and black arrests.

The Railroad Stations in Memphis[Union Station was equipped with Segregated with waiting rooms and facilities until it was torn down].    Central Station also had Segregated facilities,Rest Rooms and Waiting Rooms.    As the 1960's roled along they were remodeled( Signs and Barriers removed ), while  enforcement of Segregation rules were  dropped.   Bus Stations were constructed with seperate facilities, as well. Generally, it was pretty evident that the 'Colored' facilities were maintained during Segregation times as 'second class'.

In rural Mississippi ( North of Jackson) and in Eastern Arkansas,  Segregation, and its vestiges died  a much slower ' death'.   Riding on the Illinois Central Passenger trains in that era, it seemed that the Passengers themselves, practiced a form of 'self-segregation' within  the train's facilities..at least that was my impressions.

 

 


 

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Posted by GP-9_Man11786 on Thursday, January 22, 2015 8:35 AM

If a railroad company in the south really wanted to, couldn't they have claimed the state segregation law was preemted by federal law due to interstate commerce? In fact couldn't the ICC have done something?

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, January 22, 2015 9:05 AM

GP-9_Man11786

If a railroad company in the south really wanted to, couldn't they have claimed the state segregation law was preemted by federal law due to interstate commerce? In fact couldn't the ICC have done something?

 

Coulda'  Woulda'  Shoulda'

The halmarks of revisonist historians.

The age was what it was and the SCOTUS with it's ruling changed the playing field.

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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, January 22, 2015 11:42 AM

Excerpt from Freedom’s Main Line by Derek Charles Catsam (2009)

The Interstate Commerce Commission did rule in favor of disbanding Jim Crow in two cases that came down later than CORE or the NAACP had anticipated. On November 7, 1955, the ICC presented its rulings in Keys v. Carolina Coach Co. and NAACP v. St. Louis-San Francisco Railway Co. Part of the reason for the delay was that the ICC wanted to pronounce judgment on both cases simultaneously. As had been the situation with Brown, Keys and NAACP both involved a number of challenges that were consolidated into one comprehensive case. The ICC was clear that Brown v. Board had a direct bearing on these cases. Using by now familiar arguments and language, the ICC finally and irrevocably struck down Jim Crow on trains, on buses, and in station waiting rooms, declaring Jim Crow regulations to be in violation of the antidiscrimination section of the Interstate Commerce Act. The ICC did not, however, prohibit discrimination in privately owned and operated facilities in bus terminals or train stations. That would be a question for another day. The order would go into effect on January 10, 1956.

Excerpt from American Jewish Yearbook (1956)

A number of very significant developments occurred during the reporting period (July 1, 1955, through June 30, 1956) in the area of public transportation. Both the administrative agency and court decisions handed down virtually destroyed the legal sanction for racial segregation in intrastate as well as in interstate transportation.

The NAACP and a group of individuals filed a complaint with the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC) charging fourteen southern railways and the Union News Company with discriminating against Negro passengers traveling in interstate commerce by enforcing racial segregation on trains and in depots and stations. On November 7, 1955, the ICC issued a cease and desist order in which it found that: The practices of the defendants ... in assigning or directing Negro interstate passengers to coaches or portions of coaches designated or provided for the exclusive use of such passengers, and in maintaining waiting rooms in their stations designated for the exclusive use of such passengers, subject Negro passengers to undue and unreasonable prejudice and disadvantage.

The railroads were thereupon ordered to end their discriminatory practices on or before January 10, 1956. On the same date the ICC issued a ruling on a complaint of a Negro member of the Women's Army Corps against the Carolina Coach Company. The complainant charged that while on an interstate trip she was put off a bus by the driver upon reaching Roanoke Rapids, N. C, when she refused to change her seat to the section "reserved for Negroes." The commission found the carrier's rules and regulations requiring racial segregation implied the "inherent inferiority of a traveler solely because of race or color [and] must be regarded as subjecting the traveler to unjust discrimination, and undue and unreasonable disadvantage." The bus company was thereupon ordered to discontinue on or before January 10, 1956, its practice of enforcing racial segregation upon interstate travelers.

Compliance with the ICC decisions was spotty. After the effective date segregation of passengers in waiting rooms was abandoned in railroad stations in Nashville and Knoxville, Tenn., Oklahoma City, Okla., Atlanta, Ga., Birmingham, Ala., and at one station (of three) in Richmond, Va. In some southern cities former "White" signs were replaced by ones reading "Waiting Room" while the "colored" signs became "Waiting Room for Colored Intrastate Passengers." Defiance of the ICC order was voiced by public authorities in Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina.

http://www.army.mil/article/120456/The_quietly_defiant__unlikely_fighter___Pfc__Sarah_Keys_and_the_fight_for_justice_and_humanity/

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Posted by greyhounds on Thursday, January 22, 2015 11:19 PM

OK, getting a little off topic here, but it was not "Just" a southern problem.

I was born (1950) in Pekin, IL and raised in a small town about 15 miles south of Pekin.  Before my time on Earth, Pekin had been a center of KKK power.  The city of about 34,000 had one radio station and one newspaper.  They were once both owned by the Klan.  There were no black people in Pekin.  Or in Tazwell County.  Or in my home of Mason County to the south.  Do you wonder why?

Fast foward to 1985.  I was then married to a woman who worked in distribution for McDonalds.  McDonalds had a store in Pekin.  They could not send a black truck driver to make a delivery to the store.  (McDonalds just didn't want to get their driver hurt.  And their black drivers didn't want to get hurt or worse.)  And this was 1985!

I've read that the SP would segregate passengers on the Coast Daylight in California.  The agent taking the reservation would use the code words "I've got some fine clientel here" to ID black passengers.  Then they'd be booked in the combine instead of the other coaches.

It was bad and it went deep.  And it wasn't just in the south.

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, January 23, 2015 1:41 PM

greyhounds
I was born (1950) in Pekin, IL and raised in a small town about 15 miles south of Pekin.

Although they once had some great basketball teams, Pekin had a rather unsavory reputation in regard to

its apparent lack of respect for ethnic groups other than WASPs.  The school teams were known as the Pekin Chinks until 1980.  The highly offensive team mascots were a male and female student dressed as Chinese persons wearing stereotypical Chinese attire.   Even today Asians from all ethnicities account for <1% of the population.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, January 23, 2015 1:55 PM

The high school's team name was a major issue at the time and was quite similar to the issue of the team name of the Washington (DC) professional football club.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Friday, January 23, 2015 2:43 PM

To sort of direct this Thread back towards the FORUM's Normal Subject matter, but keeping it in line with the discussion...

Paul (CSSHEGEWISCH) and Greyhounds, and several others who Post here grew up in the shadow of the Illinois Central Railroad.  Many who did not live along the 'Mainline of Mid-America'  may not remember that the Railroad was somwhat instrumental in the flight of a large negro population from the South to jobs and a 'better life' in the Upper Midwest; to Chicago, on to Milwaukee, and towards the industries of Michigan.   

     It was the evey day trains that plied the IC North out of Louisiana and Mississipp and its' Mississippi River Delta Region,( the hard agricultural jobs that region represented.) 

            The IC was responsible for the movement of Gulf Coast perishibles; Strawberries ( fresh from the Hamond,La area) transported in Baggage Cars, on fast passenger schedules.    Banannas from the Gulf Coast Ports, re-iced at South Fulton,Ky, and on to the markets of the upper Midwest.   Fresh seafoods from the docks in South Alabama.  The IC  maintained fleets of aging boxcars to move the seasonal cotton crop to markets, as one rode on their lines those ancient boxes could be seen in long strings on passing tracks and sidings all along the route.   

The ICRR helped to move a heavily rural population from the South to the North. It could be considered not only a force for commerce, but population growth.. It was really the line sung about in Arlo Guthrie's Song. 

 

 

 

 


 

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Posted by greyhounds on Friday, January 23, 2015 11:30 PM

schlimm
Although they once had some great basketball teams, Pekin had a rather unsavory reputation in regard to its apparent lack of respect for ethnic groups other than WASPs.  The school teams were known as the Pekin Chinks until 1980.  The highly offensive team mascots were a male and female student dressed as Chinese persons wearing stereotypical Chinese attire.   Even today Asians from all ethnicities account for <1% of the population.

OK, just to put Pekin, IL in context:

I did not attend the Pekin schools, so the Chinks were not my team.  Pekin, IL is so named because it is on the same latitude as Beijing, China.  Beijing used to be called Peking in the US.  This became "Pekin".  (Canton, IL is nearby.)  The school teams were the "Chinks".  Now, they're the "Dragons".  

They did win the state basketball championship in, I believe, 1964.  It was quite a big deal back then and the tournament games were on statewide black and white TV.  We watched and heard things such as:  "Here come the Chinks bringing the ball down the floor", or "Time out called by the Chinks."

Watching this as a 13 year old I simply didn't realize that "***" was considered a derogatory term.  Why would a school intentionally denigrate its sports teams?  I don't think many of the students at Pekin High School considered it anything but an honor to be a "***".

But the name was offensive to many people.  Dragons works just as well.  

Edit to add:  Apparently the automatic editor will allow the plural but not the singular form of the former team name.

 

 

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Posted by dakotafred on Saturday, January 24, 2015 7:12 AM

Today, we pat ourselves on the back for being so enlightened. But we should anticipate -- just for the humility exercise, always useful -- that one day our descendants will shake their heads at some of our beliefs and practices as surely as they will laugh at our clothes.

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, January 24, 2015 7:31 AM

greyhounds
ekin, IL is so named because it is on the same latitude as Beijing, China.

Nonsense.

 

Beijing, China is latitude 39°54′50″N  , while Pekin, Il is 40°34′4″N .

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Posted by Norm48327 on Saturday, January 24, 2015 8:25 AM

schlimm

 

 
greyhounds
ekin, IL is so named because it is on the same latitude as Beijing, China.

 

Nonsense.

 

Beijing, China is latitude 39°54′50″N  , while Pekin, Il is 40°34′4″N .

 

Close enough for horseshoes? Wink

Norm


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Posted by MP173 on Saturday, January 24, 2015 9:24 AM

Sam:

If you grew up in Memphis, then you were aware of Stax Records.  There is a great book out called "Respect Yourself" by Robert Gordon.  The book covers the history of Stax Records and the 'Memphis Sound'.  It is a great look at Memphis and the music during the 60's and 70s.   What was the Memphis Sound?  Musicians such as Otis Redding, Booker T & MGs (house band), Wilson Pickett, Isaac Hayes, Staples Singers and others.  I never realized the talent that came out of Memphis until I read the book.

Often I have wondered about the Illinois Central and how it handled the Jim Crow issues.  My guess is they handled it with two tier levels of passenger service.  Perhaps the Panama Limited (all Pullman/sleeper) was the "white" train.  That would mean the lower income whites would have gravitated to other trains that did not feature sleeper service.  

My aunt had an IC railroad pass (her husband was a carman in Mattoon) and she used it extensively.  She told the story of riding the City of New Orleans and the coffee cup being only half full due to the speed of the train.  She worked at Kresge and her day off was Wednesday.  She and her neighbor (who's husband was also an IC employee) would go to Chicago on Wednesdays for lunch, taking an early train in and an afternoon train back to Mattoon.  Unfortunately, I never took the trip to Chicago with her, she often told me she would take me during Christmas season to see the lights on Michigan Ave...but it never occurred.

Ed

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 24, 2015 10:06 AM

According to Wikipedia, "The village site was awarded to Major Isaac Perkins, Gideon Hawley, William Haines and Major Nathan Cromwell. Mrs. Ann Eliza Cromwell selected the name of the city, naming it after BeijingChina, then spelled "Peking" or "Pekin"."

The author of the article cites Pekin, Illinois, History 2007-05-18, retrieved 1007-11-04, as his source.  It appears that he copied the information from Pekin, Illinois Community Profile, which is published by Community Profile, Inc. and Progressive Publishing Company.  Apparently one of its product lines is community history that can be used by the Chambers of Commerce. 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, January 24, 2015 10:13 AM

I have heard that when the name was chosen, it was claimed that Pekin was on the opposite side of the earth from the city in China.  Obviously not true, but it probably sounded good at the time.  At any rate, the city in Illinois was politically on the opposite side of the earth from the city in China as it was the hometown of Senator Everett Dirksen.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, January 24, 2015 10:37 AM

Whistling

MP173

Sam:

If you grew up in Memphis, then you were aware of Stax Records.  There is a great book out called "Respect Yourself" by Robert Gordon.  The book covers the history of Stax Records and the 'Memphis Sound'.  It is a great look at Memphis and the music during the 60's and 70s.   What was the Memphis Sound?  Musicians such as Otis Redding, Booker T & MGs (house band), Wilson Pickett, Isaac Hayes, Staples Singers and others.  I never realized the talent that came out of Memphis until I read the book.

Often I have wondered about the Illinois Central and how it handled the Jim Crow issues.  My guess is they handled it with two tier levels of passenger service.  Perhaps the Panama Limited (all Pullman/sleeper) was the "white" train.  That would mean the lower income whites would have gravitated to other trains that did not feature sleeper service.  

My aunt had an IC railroad pass (her husband was a carman in Mattoon) and she used it extensively.  She told the story of riding the City of New Orleans and the coffee cup being only half full due to the speed of the train.  She worked at Kresge and her day off was Wednesday.  She and her neighbor (who's husband was also an IC employee) would go to Chicago on Wednesdays for lunch, taking an early train in and an afternoon train back to Mattoon.  Unfortunately, I never took the trip to Chicago with her, she often told me she would take me during Christmas season to see the lights on Michigan Ave...but it never occurred.

Ed

 

 

ED:

    I'll see what I can do about the music sounds around Memphis during the 1950's to the 1970's. Bear in mind I am NO Musician, I could not carry a tune in a #3 Wash Tub ! Smile, Wink & Grin

    In my mind Memphis'sound evolved starting in tha 1950's, Yes, I knew about STAX Recording studio; and also, SUN Recording Studio, in a triangular building at the corner of Union Ave and Madison Ave. Their big thing back then was to 'rent' recording studio/time. The management was able to sort of 'cull' the music and musicians; The really good ones went on into the 'business' and as far as tallent and management would carry them.  A fast story about ELVIS was that a disc jocky at WHBQ in Memphis, named Dewey Phillips, locked himself in his Broadcast Studio and played over and over Elvis' " That's All Right, Momma.."  He was the first to ever play Elvis on the Radio in 1954.

 

 My take on the Memphis Sound was it was on TWO Tracks, The "Soul"  and the whoe encompassing genre of what was then 'Country'.   I am more familiar with the Country-side.  I worked for a time in a couple of joints(Country style) around town, met a lot of entertainers. Worked along side of Elvis on some Construction jobs. His voice ( untrained then) was something special..His gospel songs would almost bring one to tears. Well, you, know his story... 

On the Illinois Central, THEIR Station was Central Station, Their passenger line was north across the Bluff fronting the downtown area ( grade was pretty steep from North to South, grade was ??)   The waiting rooms were always mostly full around train time, NB trains seemed to be very heavily trafficed by Blacks heading to northern points.  Apparently, the very, heavy population movement were during the the Depression, and pre-WWII eras, and lots of families traveled by train back and forth. 

The 'mix' of passengers seemed to get along well, and there was not a lot of reported 'problems'. The Black Passengers seemed to carry their own food for their trip, and the Diners fed a 'light mix' of passengers.  My travels were always between Memphis and NOLA. Only ventured North to Chicago on two trips.  Passengers seemed to entertain themselves with card games, and kids seemed to watch out the windows, sometimes played board games. 

My travels on the IC were generally alone, occasionally with family friends, and acquaintances who worked for the IC. I knew several men at Johnston Yard at the Roundhouse, and some engineers in road service. Those times around the railroad were a lot different than these days. Many workers welcomed a kid who was willing to run for snacks, or soft drinks, and smokes.

  I also had acquaintances at the then 'new' Frisco Tenn Yard. Back then the Mississippi R Bridge Tenders/Watchmen welcomed someone to talk to, aqnd that area was not nearly as dangerous as it apparently is these days. 

  Memphis was a good town then for a kid to railfan in.  Probably, not so much these days.  ED, I look forward to reading Mr. Gordon's book.  The 'other side of Memphis was it was a hot bed of "'Rasslin' " back then... Monday night 's at the Auditorium and later the Coleseum were generally filled to capacity.. 

  

 

 


 

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, January 24, 2015 11:26 AM

Quoting Sam: "    I'll see what I can do about the music sounds around Memphis during the 1950's to the 1970's. Bear in mind I am NO Musician, I could not carry a tune in a #3 Wash Tub ! Smile, Wink & Grin"

I never saw a lid for any tub, much less a #3 tub (for the benefit of those not familiar with wash tubs, that is the biggest one I ever saw, and it was possible to take a bath in one), so I will not ask if you tried one with a lid on it--but did you ever try carrying a tune in a bucket with the lid on it?Smile One of my college friends (notably, the son of the college president) said that he could not carry a tune in a bucket with the lid on it.

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, January 24, 2015 12:15 PM
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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:30 PM

Norm48327

 

 
schlimm

 

 
greyhounds
ekin, IL is so named because it is on the same latitude as Beijing, China.

 

Nonsense.

 

Beijing, China is latitude 39°54′50″N  , while Pekin, Il is 40°34′4″N .

 

 

 

Close enough for horseshoes? Wink

 

Only if you are Paul Bunyan.  It's about 40 miles.

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Posted by greyhounds on Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:32 PM

schlimm
Nonsense.   Beijing, China is latitude 39°54′50″N  , while Pekin, Il is 40°34′4″N .

OK, sorry.  I'll amed my statement to be "Pekin, IL was named after Beijing, China because they are approximately on the same latitude."

Is it OK now?

 

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, January 24, 2015 6:38 PM

Of more relevance to the thread title is this article discussing Pekin's racist history.  It was a hotbed of the KKK 1920-40.  Three Klansmen even owned the Pekin Times briefly!!


http://www.pekintimes.com/article/20130621/Lifestyle/130629916

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Posted by Wizlish on Sunday, January 25, 2015 9:27 AM

schlimm
Of more relevance to the thread title is this article discussing Pekin's racist history.  It was a hotbed of the KKK 1920-40.  Three Klansmen even owned the Pekin Times briefly!!


http://www.pekintimes.com/article/20130621/Lifestyle/130629916

Frankly, I don't find the cited article to be of ANY particular relevance to the thread title, nor do I find this continued discussion of Pekin in reference to either the thread title or a discussion of the ending of de jure segregation on interstate trains to be at all useful. 

wanswheel has been kind enough to provide the academic link between the decision in Brown v. Board of Ed. , which is nominally important for having overturned the precedent of Plessy v. Ferguson, and the actual cases a couple of years later which resulted in the invocation of the commerce clause, etc. in removing the legal grounds for state-mandated segregation on the railroads engaging in interstate commerce ...

It is certainly an interesting thing to take up the (later) history of 'desegregation' of intrastate transportation -- cf. Rosa Parks, starting in 1956 and 'resolved' more imho by the boycott than by NAACP-led legal action -- and of station facilities, etc. within a segregated state (which I think generally follow the civil rights legislation in 1964), but those again have little if anything to do with the discussion of affairs in Pekin.

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, January 25, 2015 9:36 AM

Wizlish

 

 
schlimm
Of more relevance to the thread title is this article discussing Pekin's racist history.  It was a hotbed of the KKK 1920-40.  Three Klansmen even owned the Pekin Times briefly!!


http://www.pekintimes.com/article/20130621/Lifestyle/130629916

 

Frankly, I don't find the cited article to be of ANY particular relevance to the thread title, nor do I find this continued discussion of Pekin in reference to either the thread title or a discussion of the ending of de jure segregation on interstate trains to be at all useful. 

wanswheel has been kind enough to provide the academic link between the decision in Brown v. Board of Ed. , which is nominally important for having overturned the precedent of Plessy v. Ferguson, and the actual cases a couple of years later which resulted in the invocation of the commerce clause, etc. in removing the legal grounds for state-mandated segregation on the railroads engaging in interstate commerce ...

It is certainly an interesting thing to take up the (later) history of 'desegregation' of intrastate transportation -- cf. Rosa Parks, starting in 1956 and 'resolved' more imho by the boycott than by NAACP-led legal action -- and of station facilities, etc. within a segregated state (which I think generally follow the civil rights legislation in 1964), but those again have little if anything to do with the discussion of affairs in Pekin.

 

The relevance is quite obvious to anyone trained in history.  It shows the context and modus operandi for the practice of segregation in the US.  It is an ugly part of our real history which many perfer to hide from.

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Posted by Wizlish on Sunday, January 25, 2015 9:48 AM

schlimm
The relevance is quite obvious to anyone trained in history. It shows the context and modus operandi for the practice of segregation in the US. It is an ugly part of our real history which many perfer to hide from.

OK, I'll bite.  Where is the historical documentation of the Jim Crow segregation of passengers in Illinois during the period in question?

We're all well aware, or ought to be, of the widespread background of race hatred, rationally unjustified nativism, and general prejudice that characterized, and in many ways continues to characterize, all too much of this country's 'real history'.  But that does not justify continued polemics that have nothing to do with the thread subject.  It would almost certainly be 'on topic' to discuss the historical development of Jim Crow transportation practices (particularly in the 1870s and then again in the years immediately following Plessy.  But Chinks, the KKK, encouraging 'undesirables' to see how things play in Peoria, etc. do not tell us anything about the legislation of nominally 'separate  but equal' separation of the races in railroad travel, let alone the real-world (and eminently historical) procedures by which that practice was actually overturned.

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