Stillwater threatening to take and scrap Zephyr engines

[Boyd]

Are there any lawyers on here? The city of Stillwater Mn is threatening to move and scrap the two F series locomotives locomotives that are sitting on the property of what was the Minnesota Zephyr tourist train operation. Neither engine is on city property. They are not rusty, leaking or anything. They are sitting on arranged 4x4 boards and the trucks are nearby. Can a city actually do this? Do they have a LEGAL right to do this? I live 3 miles from where they sit. Any rail fans want to organize a protest to the city council? There is an article in the October 10th Stillwater Gazette. I don't know how to post a link with the smartphone I'm using.

[ruderunner]

Im no lawyer but in some areas there are laws to that effect. usually used to prevent private prooperty from becoming junkyards.Typically handled through zoning department What is the general appearance of the locos? If run down (peeling paint and missing parts) the city may well be legal.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Usually requires a formal citation, posting of the property, and a hearing of some sort resulting in a finding that the situation is a nusiance to the community (or an "attractive nusiance" to children), and/ or some kind of imminent safety, fire, or environmental hazard.

In this kind of case, there is no substitute - none - for going through the effort of looking at the paperwork, reading the actual ordinance or code book, and comparing it with the state statute and regulations, etc. 

But the owner should show up and stand up and defend his property rights.  It's likely that you - as a mere railfan / bystander - don't have legal "standing" to object, unless you live in or pay taxes to the town of Stillwater, or have some other connection to it or the locomotives (perhaps even something as tenuous as having been a volunteer on the train might be enough).

- Paul North.        

[Overmod]

Boyd

The city of Stillwater Mn is threatening to move and scrap the two F series locomotives locomotives that are sitting on the property of what was the Minnesota Zephyr tourist train operation.

There is a long history behind this - it's been discussed in several threads here, and a few ongoing ones on RyPN.  This situation is neither mysterious nor new. 

I just hope this doesn't wind up being another Dick Jensen/5632 affair.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

"+1". 

With the present shortages of motive power on the Class 1's, I'd think some shortline would be willing to lease the darn things and actualy run them, freeing up some of their other more modern power to lease to a Class 1, etc. - would be a benefit to all involved. 

Further on the legal side: Any proceeding usually concludes - in addition to the imposition of fines, etc. - with an order to the effect of "Fix it up or tear it down in 10 (or 30) days, or the City will [do one or the other], and then bill the owner for that as well."  That's usually more applicable to decrepit buildings than locomotives, but you can see the parallel.  More to the point, there's plenty of notice and opportunity for the owner to do the right thing, or appeal, or whatever.  If it ends badly, that's usually the person primarily responsible, not the City.

Is the owner not interested / not mentally competent / impaired / seriously ill, etc. ?  This impending end makes no logical sense (but then again, it rarely does).

- Paul North. 

[dknelson]

Overmod

 I just hope this doesn't wind up being another Dick Jensen/5632 affair.

 

 

Another Dick Jensen/5632 and GTW 5629 affair you should say.  But that is a story for another day. 

Stillwater MN was happy to boast of that train in their marketing and advertising brochures back in the 1980s.  Stillwater is a rather over rated tourist destination in my opinion.

Dave Nelson

[Euclid]

Paul_D_North_Jr

 

Is the owner not interested / not mentally competent / impaired / seriously ill, etc. ?  This impending end makes no logical sense (but then again, it rarely does).

- Paul North. 

 

 

From what I have read, the owner is competent and seems reasonable.  But I am not too sure about his ability to work with the City.  In any case, he is dealing with the challenge of liquidating equipment from his defunct dinner train operation out of Stillwater.  This mission has involved moving the equipment to various locations and storing it while waiting for a sale.  I don’t know what the latest status is, but I assume the sale will involve multiple buyers.

Stillwater is a very special kind of place, and I think I can see why they would find the locomotives objectionable even symbolically let alone in terms of public safety.  Interestingly, it would be a far different attitude than what they expressed about the dinner train.

But the issue that has sparked this latest flap is that children were seen climbing atop the locomotives. So why not put up a fence and solve that problem?     

 

 

 

[D.Carleton]

Paul_D_North_Jr

With the present shortages of motive power on the Class 1's, I'd think some shortline would be willing to lease the darn things and actualy run them, freeing up some of their other more modern power to lease to a Class 1, etc. - would be a benefit to all involved. 

The people who sign my paycheck have inspected them and found them to be in very rough shape. These are not turn-key locomotives.

[Boyd]

Some of the wheels have more wear near the flanges than at the outer edge. In one of the many stories related to this in the Stillwater Gazette, the owner has said that trying to sell the train is the hardest thing he has ever done in his life.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

According to this Nov. 21st article (and as I sugggested a few posts above, on Oct. 12th), these units have been purchased by Iowa Pacific Holdings (Ed Ellis), and are to be moved to Colorado by Dec. 15th:

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2014/11/minnesota-zephyr-f-units-set-to-move-next-month 

- Paul North. 

[Leo_Ames]

Nice to see them saved. One has a small bit of noteriety as the only SP&S F unit that survives, part of the small group of EMD's on a roster that was dominated by Alco in the diesel era. 

[Boyd]

A recent article in the Stillwater Gazette states they will be moved December 15th. Paradeau's lawyer fought off recent threats. The cities attorney has been in contact with all parties relating to the December 15th move and said if anything falls through the city will pay the contractor to move it anyway. I honestly don't think the city has legal right to move the engines since they are both now on Zephyr property. I have a landlord who harassed me perpetually about how ugly my vehicles were to him to the point he threatened to tow one away. Another one he told me was too ugly to park here. All were running registered, insured, used every day and not leaking excessively. I called the state of Mn and they told me my landlord couldn't do anything to me legally. I think the city is doing a "I'm going to huff and puff and blow your house down" routine which to me is hot air. I will try to get pictures. 

[ROBERT WILLISON]

As stated above its more than how they look. The city probably can find the legal authority to have them removed if the become an safety issue or if they in fact are against a zoning law.  Hope they get moved quick.