NorthWest Sometimes steam locomotives, when worn, would move very very slowly. I think that is where the chocks were needed, and explains why locomotives ended up in turntable pits on occasion.
Sometimes steam locomotives, when worn, would move very very slowly. I think that is where the chocks were needed, and explains why locomotives ended up in turntable pits on occasion.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
I have heard the same story, although with pennies rather than dimes (I guess we Canadians aren't as rich as you Americans ) and with a diesel. They had to be pushed tight against the tread so no momentum assist was possible, and of course on all wheels. The crushing of the edge of the coin will only occur if the engine is actually moving onto it, and supposedly the coins prevented that initial horizontal motion from happening. Instead, the initial motion had to be vertical, lifting something like 150 tons vertically a fraction of an inch. The theory sounded plausible but I never tested it. And maybe it was truer for first generation power and a modern AC could handle it.
The large drivers on a steam locomotive might be able to deal with a dime, but if all other wheels (pony truck, trailing truck and tender) are also blocked, only the coins at the drivers will be dislodged by wheel slip.
John
I have seen them stick to the wheel.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
cx500 I have heard the same story, although with pennies rather than dimes (I guess we Canadians aren't as rich as you Americans ) and with a diesel. They had to be pushed tight against the tread so no momentum assist was possible, and of course on all wheels. The crushing of the edge of the coin will only occur if the engine is actually moving onto it, and supposedly the coins prevented that initial horizontal motion from happening. Instead, the initial motion had to be vertical, lifting something like 150 tons vertically a fraction of an inch. The theory sounded plausible but I never tested it. And maybe it was truer for first generation power and a modern AC could handle it. The large drivers on a steam locomotive might be able to deal with a dime, but if all other wheels (pony truck, trailing truck and tender) are also blocked, only the coins at the drivers will be dislodged by wheel slip. John
I've heard about it too. I can't remember for sure if the version I heard used a dime or nickel, or how many wheels, but what I heard involved a steam locomotive. I'll probably say it wrong, but the reason given was because of the way a steam engine develops it's power. It's at higher rather than lower speed. From a stop, it can't develop enough power to "climb" onto the coin.
I've always thought it would be a good one for the Mythbusters to try. Or maybe a discussion unto itself over on the steam locomotive portion of the forum.
Jeff
Actually, there is the law saying that defacing a bill or coin is illegal if it's done fraudulently as noted earlier, but there's also another law saying it's illegal, period, if it renders the coin or bill unable to be used as currency.
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=426715
I tried, didn't work. Oh well.
54light15 Sorry, I tried to insert a picture but had no luck. Any help out there?
Sorry, I tried to insert a picture but had no luck. Any help out there?
There's no way to directly insert a photo - it has to be hosted somewhere (photo site, etc) so you can link to it. Beyond that, the easiest way is to use the "insert image" icon in the box at the top of the post box.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
wjstix Actually, there is the law saying that defacing a bill or coin is illegal if it's done fraudulently as noted earlier, but there's also another law saying it's illegal, period, if it renders the coin or bill unable to be used as currency. http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=426715
Last month I my wife and I visited the Strategic Aerospace Museum west of Omaha. They had a couple of machines where you put in a penny, and another $0.50, turned a crank and the penny was turned into a souvenir coin. It crushed an image into, and elongated the coin.
It had a sign on the machine that it was legal to do this to the coin. I've seen similar machines at other venues. There's no question it renders the penny unusable as a penny.
The one I have exchanged an image of Honest Abe for one of a B-52.
Maybe we almost lost a forum member?
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
54light15Zugmann, thanks so much for that. There is a movie about him called "Dear Mr. Watterson" that was released last year. The only people to watch it were comics lovers like me. Well worth seeking out. Now back to trains, notice how well done the train is drawn in that strip? He knew what he was looking at and what he was drawing. He didn't draw cars all that well, though but then:
Let me steer this thread off-topic once more.
There's also a movie called "Stripped" http://www.strippedfilm.com/ about the closing of newspapers and the future of comics. Bill Watterson did the poster for it, and has an audio interview in it. I haven't seen it, but I may get it (I keep forgetting about it).
I'm more into animation, but comics are a close 2nd.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Zugmann, I'll have to look for that, thanks. Animation? Fair enough. Seems like this thread is getting like a story conference at Termite Terrace in 1939. Anyway, In Pittsburgh is the Monaghela incline railway, you can put a penny in a machine at the upper station and stamp it into an image of the railway car there. The picture I tried to post was a one dollar bill with a picture of Don Corleone where George used to be. A souvenir of Key West.
Semper Vaporo NorthWest Sometimes steam locomotives, when worn, would move very very slowly. I think that is where the chocks were needed, and explains why locomotives ended up in turntable pits on occasion. They were often called "Nocturnal Creepers" or "Night Creepers". The throttle might leak a wee bit and if the loco was left unattended it might build up enough pressure to cause the wheels to turn. One story I read was of an engine that was left in an engine shed and the engine creped forward until the front was against a solid wall. The leakage continued until full pressure was applied and the wheels broke free from the rail and spun wildly. The blast out the stack from this, blew the roof off the shed. To combat this, chains were strung thru the spokes of the drivers and over the rods to keep them from going too far.
Wasn't it customary to leave the cylinder cocks open to prevent pressure buildup in the cylinders? I think I remember reading something about it a long time ago.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Paul of Covington Semper Vaporo NorthWest Sometimes steam locomotives, when worn, would move very very slowly. I think that is where the chocks were needed, and explains why locomotives ended up in turntable pits on occasion. They were often called "Nocturnal Creepers" or "Night Creepers". The throttle might leak a wee bit and if the loco was left unattended it might build up enough pressure to cause the wheels to turn. One story I read was of an engine that was left in an engine shed and the engine creped forward until the front was against a solid wall. The leakage continued until full pressure was applied and the wheels broke free from the rail and spun wildly. The blast out the stack from this, blew the roof off the shed. To combat this, chains were strung thru the spokes of the drivers and over the rods to keep them from going too far. Wasn't it customary to leave the cylinder cocks open to prevent pressure buildup in the cylinders? I think I remember reading something about it a long time ago.
You'd think so, wouldn't you! Not sure why they would not, except human laziness... or maybe the engines were not equipped with them. Slide valve engines could have the valve lift off the seat when the pressure was too great and release the pressure that way and thus prevent damage to the cylinders if there were no cylinder cocks.
After I posted the above I ran across a reason for the throttle leakage other than the engineer just not closing it hard enough. In an engine with the throttle in the dome, the linkage to the lever to operate it might change in length at a different rate than the contraction of the boiler shell and that might loosen (or truly open) the throttle. Front end throttles usually have a crank lever about midway along the outside of the boiler that would compensate for the difference is thermal expansion/contraction and so had less problems with a throttle leaking when the engine was shut down.
Semper Vaporo Paul of CovingtonWasn't it customary to leave the cylinder cocks open to prevent pressure buildup in the cylinders? I think I remember reading something about it a long time ago. You'd think so, wouldn't you! Not sure why they would not, except human laziness... or maybe the engines were not equipped with them. Slide valve engines could have the valve lift off the seat when the pressure was too great and release the pressure that way and thus prevent damage to the cylinders if there were no cylinder cocks.
Paul of CovingtonWasn't it customary to leave the cylinder cocks open to prevent pressure buildup in the cylinders? I think I remember reading something about it a long time ago.
EDIT -- I have no idea what prompted me to comment on cylinder cocks, but I have removed the comment to keep from misleading the unwary. See Semper Vaporo's take on them below for a correct view.
Note that the throttle-rod explanation involves an external throttle rod, instead of one that's carried through the water space above the crown and the tubes. That's how the expansion of the boiler structure (supporting the rods) and the rods themselves can be different ... and note that the boiler can contract as well as expand and cause the external rod to move.
The point of the 'midway' lever deserves a bit more consideration: note that the sections of rod before and behind this lever are of equal length. This ensures that whether the half-rods expand or contract, the overall length of the system remains the same.
Note that putting the locomotive valve gear in mid position (which you might think from general theory would assure zero movement with steam applied) is not a sure guarantee against nightwalking (although it certainly is the prudent thing to do as a general precaution!)
Cylinder Cocks are at the ends of the cylinder (both ends) and can vent the cylinder at all times regardless of the position of the piston. Nether the piston nor the valve have to move to uncover the cylinder cock port; the engineer moves a lever (or rotates a knob/handle) in the cab to open the cocks via a mechanical linkage or to apply air/steam pressure to a mechanism at the cocks themselves, when he wants to vent the cylinders.
They do not pass as much steam as the steam inlet ports so the pressure can get high enough to still move the piston even though they are open. They are at the bottom of the cylinder so that water will be expelled first since it will collect there.
When the engine is starting up and you see the venting of steam, that is the end of the cylinder that is admitting the steam, not the end that is exhausting spent steam... i.e.: The piston is moving away from the end of the cylinder that is venting the steam at the moment.
Guess I am the only one that uses a small piece of tape to hold the Penny/Nickle on the rail.....
Hey Kenny, I used to frequent the passing of the Morning Hiawatha at the 92nd Street overpass in Wauwatosa, WI over 50 years ago. I tried the penny on the rail approach many times and never found the coin. So I assume most of the posters are correct about the coins shooting out. The only one I found was the one I taped to the rail. It formed a perfectly symetrical oval with Lincoln's image pressed flat and smooth into the coin. I still have it. But reflecting back on this stunt, it was stupid and dangerous.
Mookie Maybe we almost lost a forum member?
Johnny
Deggesty Mookie Maybe we almost lost a forum member? Now, Mookie, you know that all of us know better than that.
FM56 Hey Kenny, I used to frequent the passing of the Morning Hiawatha at the 92nd Street overpass in Wauwatosa, WI over 50 years ago. I tried the penny on the rail approach many times and never found the coin. So I assume most of the posters are correct about the coins shooting out. The only one I found was the one I taped to the rail. It formed a perfectly symetrical oval with Lincoln's image pressed flat and smooth into the coin. I still have it. But reflecting back on this stunt, it was stupid and dangerous.
With caution and moderation.....I guess kids posed the biggest danger.
They probably wanted to stay as close to the tracks as they could...so they could more easily find their coin after the train passed. I doubt there were many injuries from this...but i could be wrong.
BTW FM56 .....I consider you very lucky to have been around to see The Hiawatha.
Nothing we please me more than to step back in time (circa 150 ought to do...) with my wife, and take some fabulous train-trips.
A few from USA CA 94585 to Chicago and points East for starters...down the East Coast...through The South...maybe grab the AT&SF back to California...and if I was really blessed..... to be able to take a train trip from San Fransisco to Reno via The Western Pacific.
There are A Lot of aspects of "modern life" I have just never acclimated to, and probably never will. But, no doubt, there are just as many aspects of safety and convenience that I would miss if I were dropped into a 1950 train ride.
No internet for one thing. My IQ would drop from 7 to 3 if I could not look at Wikipedia, and all the Forums I belong to.....
Coins back in the old days were made of silver (dimes, quarters, halfs) and pennies were made of copper. New metals are much harder. They have a way of sticking to the wheels which are softer than the coins and getting lodged in the braking equipment. That's what I tell people at the tourist railroad where I work.
mudchicken Mookie Maybe we almost lost a forum member? Darn, next time I'll drag out the really big roll duct tape on him. The coins are being collected to defer expenses (more duct tape).
Euclid The answer to the question is that people who put coins on the rail will eventually graduate to putting spikes on the rail. So you want to nip that in the bud.
The answer to the question is that people who put coins on the rail will eventually graduate to putting spikes on the rail. So you want to nip that in the bud.
That has to be one of the most nonsensical comments I've read in a long time. When I was young, I and many of my friends put coins on rails, and I can say with certainty the thought of putting a spike on a rail. Were you really serious?
MikeInPlano Euclid The answer to the question is that people who put coins on the rail will eventually graduate to putting spikes on the rail. So you want to nip that in the bud. That has to be one of the most nonsensical comments I've read in a long time. When I was young, I and many of my friends put coins on rails, and I can say with certainty the thought of putting a spike on a rail. Were you really serious?
I am sure you meant that the thought never crossed your mind... but I can agree with Euclid's original sentiment...
While it was not associated with RRs, I have seen kids do things where "something little was fun, so something big will be even more fun!". Kids do not always think ahead nor understand the consequences of a change in scale. A lot of adults are of the same ilk...
The coins would be flattened or thrown because they are not very heavy.
A large, thick sheet of metal intentionally or accidentally laid across a grade crossing could cause a derailment.
If a 1/4" thick sheet of steel fell out of a truck as it bounced over a grade crossing and it could not be moved before the locomotive hit it with both front wheels, that would most likely cause a derailment.
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