Steve,
While I am not a big fan of moderation, especially to excess, you did very will with this one.
Mac McCulloch
chad s thomas I don't know Missouri and don't pretend to.. but I remember years ago reading about a lead mine operation on a BN branch line that originated 40-50 car trains of lead ore in 50' hoppers. Mabee that is what you saw.
Might this be the article ?
- Paul North.
The branch with the lead mines would be one that left Frisco's (and BN's) St. Louis-to-Springfield line at Cuba, and went southward to Steelville and beyond. It hasn't been used in years (beyond some industrial plants in Cuba), but the tracks are still intact.(Pat has a brother who lives in Steelville, so we occasionally become familiar with this area.)
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
That April 1996 Trains article indicated that the lead mines didn't have too many years of production left - 15 to 20 at the then-present rate of extraction/ production, and depending on the quality of the vein (apparently called a "trend" down there). .
From the article: "The Lead Line is a 46-mile branch running south from Cuba, 85 miles southwest of St. Louis, to Buick." (pg. 56, col. 1) Steelville - a "tiny town" - is apparently just a few miles of Cuba.
There's no mention of CSX or any of its predecessor railroads in the article or on the accompanying map - only BN (BNSF), UP, and SP.
In addition to lead, the article mentioned that copper was also mined - the ore was like 5% lead, 0.5% copper - so maybe that's why the tracks are still there, in case of another future 'comeback'.
The photo at the bottom right corner of page 58 shows a gondola with CN's "wet noodle" logo clearly visible.
Paul_D_North_Jr chad s thomas I don't know Missouri and don't pretend to.. but I remember years ago reading about a lead mine operation on a BN branch line that originated 40-50 car trains of lead ore in 50' hoppers. Mabee that is what you saw. Hey, welcome back, Chad ! Might this be the article ? "BN gets the lead out - Missouri's lead belt and its railroading" by Woods, Randy, from Trains, April 1996, p. 56 (Trains' Magazine Index 'keywords': BN commodity division lead ) - Paul North.
Thanks Paul. Idon't have my colection with me at the moment, but I would say that's the one.Wasn't sure if it was a Trains or CTC Board article. Thanks
dakotafred Phoebe Vet greyhounds Probably fracking sand to be used in horizontal drilling to extract needed oil or natural gas. Either under load or returning for more sand empty. This whole horizontal drilling thing has created a boom. For ordinary folks and the railroads. A 20 year old with a high school education can make $80,000/year in the oil fields. The railroads haul sand in and empties out. They then haul oil out and empty tank cars in. Can't beat it with a stick. And then the RRs can make more money hauling clean water in for the people who live near the gas wells. Nice try, Phoebe, but first you've got to get Obama's EPA -- which has been trying as hard as it can -- to find water poisoning as a result of fracking. It hasn't been able to do so. The elementary fact: The fracking cocktail is injected deep into the ground, far below the acquifers and surface water from which most of us drink. You'd need a very long straw -- and a strong impulse for self-destruction -- to hurt yourself. (Or maybe you only want to stampede public policy?)
Phoebe Vet greyhounds Probably fracking sand to be used in horizontal drilling to extract needed oil or natural gas. Either under load or returning for more sand empty. This whole horizontal drilling thing has created a boom. For ordinary folks and the railroads. A 20 year old with a high school education can make $80,000/year in the oil fields. The railroads haul sand in and empties out. They then haul oil out and empty tank cars in. Can't beat it with a stick. And then the RRs can make more money hauling clean water in for the people who live near the gas wells.
greyhounds Probably fracking sand to be used in horizontal drilling to extract needed oil or natural gas. Either under load or returning for more sand empty. This whole horizontal drilling thing has created a boom. For ordinary folks and the railroads. A 20 year old with a high school education can make $80,000/year in the oil fields. The railroads haul sand in and empties out. They then haul oil out and empty tank cars in. Can't beat it with a stick.
Probably fracking sand to be used in horizontal drilling to extract needed oil or natural gas. Either under load or returning for more sand empty.
This whole horizontal drilling thing has created a boom. For ordinary folks and the railroads. A 20 year old with a high school education can make $80,000/year in the oil fields. The railroads haul sand in and empties out. They then haul oil out and empty tank cars in. Can't beat it with a stick.
And then the RRs can make more money hauling clean water in for the people who live near the gas wells.
Nice try yourself. Vindication for henry6 about how much contamination of drinking water fracking has caused in Pennsylvania. He was right. He just got a little too vociferous in his language, but his suspension was too harsh, in my opinion. http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/08/29/3477184/pennsylvania-fracking-water-contamination/
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
As much political spouting a Henry did, he's lucky he didn't get banned.
And that's MY opinion.
Norm
I hope Henry comes back and sheds a little light on this.
Norm48327 As much political spouting a Henry did, he's lucky he didn't get banned. And that's MY opinion.
And good for YOU, too!! So what is "political" about expressing realistic and serious concerns about fracking (which are born out in my posted link, BTW)? There are several people on these forums (AFAIK, not you) who routinely spout their political opinions within their posts or in their signatures, but as long as they toe a corporatist line, I guess that doesn't count?
Euclid I hope Henry comes back and sheds a little light on this.
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/4309
schlimm And good for YOU, too!! So what is "political" about expressing realistic and serious concerns about fracking (which are born out in my posted link, BTW)? There are several people on these forums (AFAIK, not you) who routinely spout their political opinions within their posts or in their signatures, but as long as they toe a corporatist line, I guess that doesn't count?
The link you provided was an admittedly political website. You could have instead provided the link from the above which lead to the Wall Street Journal AP article. That article also gave the other side an opportunity to comment.
To put the report in context, the article says that about 240 water wells were impacted by oil and gas well drilling projects. A check of Pennsylvania's web site states that "Over a million homeowners in Pennsylvania depend on private water supplies for their drinking water needs. In Pennsylvania, protection and maintenance of a private well is basically the responsibility of the homeowner. Private wells are typically safe, dependable sources of water if sited wisely and constructed properly; however, there are no statewide construction standards for those private water wells." http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/topogeo/groundwater/gw_privwells/index.htm
Still, 240 wells is a problem. The PA Auditor General's report
http://www.auditorgen.state.pa.us/press-releases/auditor-general-depasquale-says-rapid-shale-gas-development-outpaced-dep%E2%80%99s-ability-to-oversee-industry-protect-water-quality
says that many of the problems were temporary, or were otherwise already fixed (my experience in my own state is that the oil company drills them a new properly constructed water well isolated from further contamination). The Auditor General concludes that the state regulatory agency was overwhelmed by the shale gas boom, and he made a series of recommendations, that the regulatory agency is implementing. The report did not get into analysis of the causes of the contaminations, but did mention mishandling of waste byproducts of the fracking process (rather than as a direct result of the underground fracking proceedure) (which is consistent with other reports such as EPA's Dimock study). In my previous posts I have conceded that no industrial development happens without some impact on its location.
Please note that none of my reference links were political as the moderator has already warned us against such. He also wanted us back on rail topics, which I thought was happening, until your recent posts.
schlimm dakotafred Phoebe Vet greyhounds Probably fracking sand to be used in horizontal drilling to extract needed oil or natural gas. Either under load or returning for more sand empty. This whole horizontal drilling thing has created a boom. For ordinary folks and the railroads. A 20 year old with a high school education can make $80,000/year in the oil fields. The railroads haul sand in and empties out. They then haul oil out and empty tank cars in. Can't beat it with a stick. And then the RRs can make more money hauling clean water in for the people who live near the gas wells. Nice try, Phoebe, but first you've got to get Obama's EPA -- which has been trying as hard as it can -- to find water poisoning as a result of fracking. It hasn't been able to do so. The elementary fact: The fracking cocktail is injected deep into the ground, far below the acquifers and surface water from which most of us drink. You'd need a very long straw -- and a strong impulse for self-destruction -- to hurt yourself. (Or maybe you only want to stampede public policy?) Nice try yourself. Vindication for henry6 about how much contamination of drinking water fracking has caused in Pennsylvania. He was right. He just got a little too vociferous in his language, but his suspension was too harsh, in my opinion. http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/08/29/3477184/pennsylvania-fracking-water-contamination/
Uh, Schlimm, your "vindication" of henry 2 weeks later cannot be called up, at least not by me.
Excerpts from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, April 3, 2014
Weak records cited on Pa. shale pollution
According to a 40-page brief, filed with the court in Harrisburg, it is the "practice" of state Department of Environmental Protection regulators not to issue a violation notice, fines or formal determinations of contamination where shale gas development companies reach private settlements with water well owners…
The brief used the deposition testimony to illustrate that private water supply users faced health risks without a legal requirement that DEP notify private water supply users of contamination affecting their water supplies. More than 3 million Pennsylvania residents rely on private well water for drinking and everyday use, according U.S. Census Bureau statistics cited in the brief.
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/marcellusshale/2014/04/03/Weak-records-cited-on-Pa-shale-pollution/stories/201404030183#ixzz3BvqKQbsP
wanswheel Excerpts from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, April 3, 2014 Weak records cited on Pa. shale pollution According to a 40-page brief, filed with the court in Harrisburg, it is the "practice" of state Department of Environmental Protection regulators not to issue a violation notice, fines or formal determinations of contamination where shale gas development companies reach private settlements with water well owners… The brief used the deposition testimony to illustrate that private water supply users faced health risks without a legal requirement that DEP notify private water supply users of contamination affecting their water supplies. More than 3 million Pennsylvania residents rely on private well water for drinking and everyday use, according U.S. Census Bureau statistics cited in the brief. http://www.post-gazette.com/local/marcellusshale/2014/04/03/Weak-records-cited-on-Pa-shale-pollution/stories/201404030183#ixzz3BvqKQbsP
This problem (from April) has now been addressed in the Auditor General's report (link cited in my last post.) The DEP didn't issue a notice of violation if they achieved voluntary compliance. It was an expedience to efficiently take care of the problem without having to go thru more formal procedures and possible delay at resolution. Unfortunately it precluded some records being generated that would have publicly identified these sites so nearby residents would be aware of the contamination. The Auditor General recommended the issuance of violation notices and publishing of records, which DEP will implement.
MidlandMike This problem (from April) has now been addressed in the Auditor General's report (link cited in my last post.)
This problem (from April) has now been addressed in the Auditor General's report (link cited in my last post.)
That link seems to be a dud. I found the report, though, and it's a hoot. Dueling Bureaucrats.
http://www.delawareriverkeeper.org/resources/Reports/PA%20AG%20audit%20DEP072114.pdf
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