STEAM&DIESEL

[N1TXN]

I NEED AN ANSWER!!!! RECENTLEY I WAS WATCHING VIDIO OF STEAM EXCURSIONS ..I.E : UP 3985,NW 611....ETC. HOW EVER SOME TIMES THE TRAIN WOULD HAVE A GEEP OR SOME DIESEL BETWEEN THE STEAMER AND THE PASS. CAR CONSIST, ANY ONE KNOW WHY??? IS IT A POWER SAVE THING?? OR SAFETY?OR IS THE DIESELTHERE INCASE THE STEAMER FAILS....LETS HERE YOUR TOUGHTS......NEW HAVEN R.R. FOREVER........N1TXN[:)]

[Anonymous]

Sometimes a diesel is used for extra braking.

[jchnhtfd]

Head end power for the passenger cars. And, rarely, additional tractive effort in mountain terrain. Sometimes the excursion trains are quite heavy!

The 3985 (still quite active, thank you!) is fully equipped with regard to safety, signals, communications, and what have you, and can -- and does -- operate anywhere on the system which can accomodate her size and weight. What she doesn't have, as I recall, is a HEP generator.

[Overmod]

Part of this is that railroads can't have broken-down excursions -- or excessively slow ones -- interfering with traffic. That means that diesels are provided for several reasons:

Protection power

Power that can move the *train* if the engine becomes immovable (cf. the rod failure on 614 when on NJT a few years ago)

Additional power for 'helping' on grades and at starting... this, I think, is the 'principal' reason diesels are used in train operation. (One way to tell if engines are 'protection' power is if they are either shut down or kept idling when the train is operating)

Power to move the train in smoke-abatement areas, etc. where the locomotive can't be heavily fired

Presumably, additional air pressure for the brake system -- I can't imagine that the locomotive's truck brakes, or even less its independent brake system, would be of any practical use as opposed to 'another car or two in the train', although it would probably have more-advanced and better brake control systems (compared to what's on the steam locomotive!), so I think that what Mike primarily means is DYNAMIC braking (which can be incredibly valuable on many steam excursions!)

Head-end power (although not very often required) -- this includes 110V AC power to outlets in the cars; this used to be provided by separate genset(s) in the train since nothing on most diesels produces clean and precise 60Hz power that's easy and safe to hook to a passenger train.

More suggestions and comments, please...

[athelney]

Both CP #2816 and #2860 were fitted with mu controls for use with diesels when needed in the consist .

[Anonymous]

Rumor has it that on the 261's Grand excursion trips the 2 P40s were doing alot of the work. I did notice that the 261 took coal in chicago and didnt coal the whole weekend .She can only go 200 miles or so on a bunker full and I followed her just that on the first day. The 261 WAS understeam and working but I think the diesels were doing alot of the pulling. I know that the 1522's last trips that the P40 on the rear of the train was pushing because the train was 24 cars long, a HUGE train for the 1522 to handle alone through the hills of central MO. There are benifits to having that diesel on the trains in that they can go farther, if theres trouble the diesel can take over and if theres a hill the extra tractive effort is a godsend. Too bad these guys that haul excusions cant paint up an E or Funit and bring them up to amtrack standards and paint them to match the steamer. A Milwakee Road F7A+B would look sharp in the hiawatha paint behind the 261................ Long live the rock!!!

[Anonymous]

The 4449 has an EMD multi pinned jack for locomotive control on the back of her cab, and the idea comes up sometimes about painting a diesel engine in Daylight colors.

[Anonymous]

The BNSF does not allow any steamers on its trackage without a diesel backup or escort. There was a couple of incidents a few years back that tied up their mainline until they could get a "rescue unit" out.

Also, the 4449 had the MU equipment installed when it was pulling the Freedom Train. It seems that the engineers on the diesel helpers were trying to run a "little" faster than the 4449 crew wanted to because the displays in the train were suffering from getting bounced around too much.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

Head end power for the passenger cars. And, rarely, additional tractive effort in mountain terrain. Sometimes the excursion trains are quite heavy!

The 3985 (still quite active, thank you!) is fully equipped with regard to safety, signals, communications, and what have you, and can -- and does -- operate anywhere on the system which can accomodate her size and weight. What she doesn't have, as I recall, is a HEP generator.

Ah, but I think she cheats, and gets away with it too. Because unlike 261, she stays on the home road, and she one of the company's stars.

If you look closely, I think part of the Howard Fogg is power generator. There is another similar unit in the lower photo too. These were taken when 3985 visited St Paul in 2002. It looks like there some pretty high tech gizmos on the roofs too.

[ericsp]

When SP 4449 came to town in 1989 and ATSF 3751 in 1999, they had to have the fire department come out to put water in the locomotives. Do not confuse this with the locomotives catching on fire (where they don't want it), they did not.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jruppert

The 4449 has an EMD multi pinned jack for locomotive control on the back of her cab, and the idea comes up sometimes about painting a diesel engine in Daylight colors.

Been there done that, looks ugly on the diesels in the photo. They need to have the streamlined look to wear Daylight paint well. Rebuild me some E's please.[swg]

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=2718

[WDGF]

Seems like an F or E b-unit, painted to match the set would fit right in and give the option of both HEP and added tractive effort.

[tree68]

Black Mountain #1, now at the B&O Museum, if I recall correctly, had a control box for the F B unit that was painted to match the rest of the train. To the trained eye, it stuck out, but a novice might think it was just a big baggage car, or whatever. I think it was in Southern service at the time, or maybe Clinchfield. No resources with me to check...

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp
When SP 4449 came to town in 1989 and ATSF 3751 in 1999, they had to have the fire department come out to put water in the locomotives. Do not confuse this with the locomotives catching on fire (where they don't want it), they did not.

Eric, when 261 was running this summer, I was on one of the trips. It was about a 200 mile round trip run. The only time they even bothered to think about water was at LaCrosse. They didn't get much while we waited for the Empire Builder though. Maybe a thousand gallons. The problem was, at the available water pressure, it would have taken all day to fill the tender. They had a schedule to keep, that's why they carry a second water tender. Look at the upper right photo in the group of 4 above. 3985 carries 3!!!! [swg]

Thats probably why they had the fire department come it. Depending on the (fire) engine, it can pump betweem 750 GPM and 1500 GPM.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Yes Eric, calling the fire department is an option, if you have the time and can clear the main. Come to think of it, that's exactly what they did in Hastings Minnesota back in the mid 70's when 4449 came through disguised as the Freedom Train.[swg]

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Yes Eric, calling the fire department is an option, if you have the time and can clear the main. Come to think of it, that's exactly what they did in Hastings Minnesota back in the mid 70's when 4449 came through disguised as the Freedom Train.[swg]

Both times they parked the trains in the SP and ATSF local train yards, respectively, for several hours. I do not remember how long SP 4449 stayed. I know it was in town on some sort of Southern Pacific business train. ATSF 3751 came trough town on the way back from Railfair 1999. It arrived in the evening and left the yard late the next morning.