Are RRs or States Responsible for Condition of Crossings?

[eastside]

I saw this story on CNN on the safety status of RR crossings:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/08/21/bus.rail.cross.ap/index.html
(listed, in of all places, in the education section.)

"Vehicles and trains collide an average of nine times a day. More than 1,000 people have been killed in the four years since the Tennessee crash. In the first five months of this year, there were 1,205 crashes, including four involving school buses, and 155 deaths.

"The 82,000 crossings where there are no gates present the greatest danger -- the accident rate is seven times that for crossings with gates that block vehicles."

What's the separation line between the responsibility of the state and the RR when it comes to RR crossings? Do the states simply mandate minimal standards for crossing warnings and safety?
Thanks!

[mudchicken]

(1) You apparently missed the obvious...It is the motorist's responsibility ( and fault) at most of these sad incidents. (The press seems to ignore this all too often)

(2) The State RR commissioner/ PUC/ etc. has the ultimate responsibility in most places (Iowa gets wierd about this) about which crossings require protection beyond crossbucks and road signage.

(3) Most of the time, the local government agency and the state pay to install flashers gates & bells and then the railroads maintain them in perpetuity. THe States get Section 400 monies from the feds to the tune of $2 million a year per state on average for protection and or grade separations (not nearly enough)

(4) The number of train/auto fatalities are decreasing while the number of pedestrian/trespassing incidents is on the rise.

(5) The feds (FRA/DOT) and the railroads are actively trying to close and remove crossings . Local government is fighting this tooth and nail. Chances of opening new at-grade crossings are slim and hopefully will get even tougher.

If you search the forum you are going to see that this subject has been discussed over and over and over and over.......Take a look at the FRA (Federal Railway Administration )and OLI (Operation Lifesaver) websites along with the website of your local PUC/Railroad Commissioner's office to see what is going on.

[eastside]

QUOTE: You apparently missed the obvious...It is the motorist's responsibility ( and fault) at most of these sad incidents

I realize that the ultimate responsibility is with the driver. My question regarded the split in responsibilities between state and RRs. The rest of your answer was good enough. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Normally the responsibility for corssing gate installation rests with the government. The railroads, except in the downtowns of older cities, were there before the roads came. The railroads would issue a crossing easement for a road to be built across the railroad property. This agreement could take any form you can rhink of. Normally the requestor of the crossing easement would have to install the crossing and gates as part of receiving their easement and indemnify the railroad for accidents.

As mentioned today the railroads and the FRA are trying to eliminate at grade crossings. If a city wants a new crossings the railroad does a 2 or 3 for one trade. Close 2 or 3 existing crossings and we will give you a new one.

Occasionally a bootleg crossing will spring up. the railroad will place a barrier across the unauthorized crossing as a first attempt to stop an illegal crossing. The bootleg crossing user will tear down the barrier at which point the railroad will seek an injunction. If the line being crossed is little used the storage of a few boxcars strategically placed is a great deterrant.

Many times the railroad in granting the crossing easement will retain the unilateral right to close the crossing upon 24 hour to 30 day notice. Although the railroad has the legal right to close the crossing this must be done with care. People who use the crossing will be at the next government meeting crying about the big nasty railroad putting thousands out of work by the closing. Travel here at your own risk.

[DSchmitt]

In California the railroads are responsible for the construction and condition of pavements within 2 feet of the track and for the construction and maintance of appropriate warning devices (crossbucks, lights, gates). The PUC sets minimum standards. The Highway Dept. is responsible ouside the 2 foot area including pavement, striping and advance signing)

The PUC, Highway Departments and the railroads all monitor the crossings to determine where there are problems and determine what improvements are needed if problems exist.

[Junctionfan]

In my opinion, the states should be responsible because in most cases the railroads were there first and cars crossing their lines are an inconvience to them because now they have to worry about fouling, collisions and other things. Actually that reminds me. If people are so ticked off about trains whistling for crossings, they should get angry at the state or city for not putting a bridge over the tracks or paying the railroad to bridge over the road like the State of Illinois has had to do in Chicago.[2c]

[Anonymous]

As a former DOT inspector in North Carolina I saw and continue to see a great deal of both sides of the grade crossing discussion. In 1997 I was on duty just north of Charlotte and observed what was then called the first sealed crossings in the state. It was referred to by state forces as a monitored four gate quad crossing with an island at the approach. at this time most crossings were the encrochment type mentioned above, unless the state owned the railroad which in this particular case it did. The railroad (NS) did the construction and I got to watch. Later at a conference I saw some of the results. A trucking company got caught by the monitor breaking the gates. After saying that there was no way that their trucks could have done such a thing. The railroad then showed the photos from the monitors and the evidence was in, it was the railroad that held for the state's right to govern its real estate. This was a first for me with the explaination that sovergnty takes many varried and strange forms[2c]

[Junctionfan]

Crossings should be replaced by over and under passes when ever finance can be spared mostly on the part of the government of every level. I say that because in Europe there are few crossings and so I would wager there is few accidents related to it. By doing this, people aren't bothered by train horns, engine crews are worried about dumb bells in cars running the gates, railroads don't have to worry about fouling and clearances related to it, and it also allows the possibility of increase train speeds.

[MP57313]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan
in Europe there are few crossings

I've noticed that on my few trips over there (England and Switzerland). I also noticed that people rarely tried to "run the gates" as they were lowering.

Of course, trains were generally shorter and swifter, so the crossings were not likely to be blocked for very long either.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan
in Europe there are few crossings

I've noticed that on my few trips over there (England and Switzerland). I also noticed that people rarely tried to "run the gates" as they were lowering.

Of course, trains were generally shorter and swifter, so the crossings were not likely to be blocked for very long either.

Give them credit for one thing, they ain't stupid

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Crossings should be replaced by over and under passes when ever finance can be spared mostly on the part of the government of every level. I say that because in Europe there are few crossings and so I would wager there is few accidents related to it. By doing this, people aren't bothered by train horns, engine crews are worried about dumb bells in cars running the gates, railroads don't have to worry about fouling and clearances related to it, and it also allows the possibility of increase train speeds.

Junctionfan, What you say is great, but expensive, Ways and Means are always a topic of interest to the two main players in this question, states and railroads. I'm afraid that the civilian world outside of the two main players will have to remain second in the interests of getting the grades seperated for the mutual benefit off all conscerned. To bad they can't see any further than what Wall Street says.