What lines use concrete ties?

[Anonymous]

Greetings;

I have seen some pictures lately that show track that looks like it is setting on concrete ties. Am I interpreting the photos correctly?

Who uses concrete in the US/CA? What are the pros/cons of concrete versus traditional wood?

Thanks for any info!

Dennis

[Overmod]

Lots of roads use concrete ties now (probably more to come)

Principal perceived advantage of concrete over wood is longevity. Other benefits may include fire resistance, geometry (the concrete ties use precise clips rather than spikes to hold the rail) and better performance in dry or other 'climate-challenged' areas.

People tried to design concrete ties for many years. A problem is that vibration and shock attenuation with concrete is just plain awful (whereas wood is relatively good at absorbing the energy of a vibrating rail, which is one of the reasons it's good in conventional track). This requires that a good clip design, and pads between tie and rail, are required to put some 'spring' in the track and to damp any ringing.

Some '80s designs of tie scrimped on cost by using short 'pads' of concrete, joined in the center by a metal bar or frame. These turned out not to work so well. On the other hand, designs which 'neck' down in the center to save on mass and volume of concrete required appear to work fairly well. I have some early research material from places like the ACC and the Portland Cement Institute covering the development of concrete ties through the late 1980s; much has been produced since then. Some of the railroad technology conferences will have papers on the topic, and AREMA's Committee 30 covers the topic in detail -- look here:

http://www.arema.org/comm/c30.htm

You might be fortunate to have a library nearby which either has, or can obtain via interlibrary loan, a copy of the AREMA Manual for Railway Engineering, which will answer most of your track questions at least as well (in theory) as people in these forums.


I'm sure the 'usual suspects' on here can provide a fairly complete listing of where concrete ties are in use.

[dldance]

The most common applications of concrete ties are in areas with high traffic and limited access for MOW equipment such as in highway underpasses. For example, UP rebuilt their single track in Austin TX that runs between the North and South lanes of the Mopac expressway with concrete ties, but changed to wood ties at the passing siding that is outside of the Mopac right of way and is more accessable.

dd

[Anonymous]

Portions of the Northeast Corridor use concrete ties.

[Dough]

There is a CSX line that runs by Dobbins Airforce Base here in Atlanta, GA. It has a pretty large amount of traffic including coal. I can fill in the specifics if you are curious.

[MP57313]

When Metrolink started up in the greater Los Angeles area in 1992, several tracks were rebuilt with concrete ties, on then ATSF (BNSF), SP (UP) and heritage UP lines. In other cases, where a new second track was built, those second tracks have concrete ties. New sidings along the BNSF Surfline at San Onofre (opens soon) and Encinitas (opened this year) are built with concerete ties.

Even some smaller branches were rebuilt: the first mile or so of the BNSF Redlands branch from San Bernardino, CA now has concrete ties. This was for eventual Metrolink route expansion, but I don't think Metrolink uses it (yet).

[Anonymous]

Amtrak in Delaware has a whole yard filled with them, just south of the Wilmington Station. I see work trains everyday pushing them up and down the NEC.

[Anonymous]

Amtrak's northeast corridor (Wash. DC to Boston) has extensive concrete tie usage. One earlier noted difference was, we don't lose as much traction return current to ground as was the case with wooden ties. But, as was stated previously, it's their long life and smoother ride (they weigh about 800 pounds each) advantages. There is a thick square hard rubber pad that is placed between the tie and the rail.

[Anonymous]

I have not seen lines with concrete ties (the NS doesnt use them on the lines I live by), but I watched that "Workin on the Railroad" video Pentrex put out a while back, and the BNSF tie laying machine that puts those things down is AWESOME!!! Talk about efficiency.

Matt

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

UP (ex-C&NW) West Line near North Western Station in Chicago uses concrete ties. The Chicago Transit Authority Dan Ryan line was built with concrete ties with the metal connecting bars in 1969.

[Anonymous]

Florida East Coast

[Anonymous]

There are also concrete ties on the BNSF Cameron connection just southwest of Galesburg.

[dldance]

I photographed an interesting repair on the BNSF between Clovis and Ft Sumner NM. A derailment shattered 3 or 4 concrete ties. MOW wedged wood ties in between the concrete ties and hand spiked them in place to hold gauge until more permanent repairs could be made. Bet that made for some slow orders.

dd

[garr]

Dough,

Doesn't the concrete ties on CSX's old W&A line start at the Chattahooche River and go north to Cartersville? If I'm not mistaken, from Atlanta to the Chattahooche, steel ties are used. Haven't seen the steel ties but they were in the plans when CSX rebuilt the line almost a decade ago(boy time flies--I must be getting old).

Jay

[Dough]

garr,

Wow, steal ties. I just saw them when I was over there for the air show. I just knew that they were non wood. I'll have to look closer the next time I'm over that way. I live in Athens, and we don't have much of that type of thing over here. In fact with all of the fallen flags on the shortlines you could easily belive that it was 1965![;)]

[Anonymous]

I know that there were concrete ties through the Tehachapi area last time I was out there a couple of years ago.

[MP57313]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

3. practically every new transit line in the West

Yes I've noticed that. The exceptions where they still use wood ties where there are "non-standard" lengths, such as the longer ties beneath switches and cross-overs. Makes for an interesting contrast in photos.