Engineers-personal time, tell your horror stories

[Anonymous]

Ok, everybody hears about the good side of the engineers job,k but at the same time, it's still a job. Jobs are funny in th way they can take things one normally enjoys doing and makes it decidedly less fun, because it becomes no longer your choice, rather it is your responsibility.

I read about the "gravy" stories, where,..due to scheduling an engineer might get lucky and get in his entire work week in 3 and a fraction days, then has the rest of the week "off" for his week end,...but under normal conditions, how secure is that time off? How secure are your normal weekends off? Can you (barring an emergency like a train wreck or other "masters ox is in the ditch" type company emergencies etc) COUNT ON the days off you were told you'd have off, or are you always just "one phonecall away" from having to trash whatever plans you may have made? And if so, does that happen rarely/frequently?

And are you in big trouble if you can't answer the bell?

A possible scenario that cues my interest, suppose you were expecting Friday and saturday off. A friend is getting married and you are planning to tie one on at his reception Friday night.

So, after putting in your day thursday, you go home sleep your 8 hours, spend the day at the wedding, and that night you have a healthy glow going by 10 PM.

How safe can you feel you're not going to get "the call" forcing you into work, and if you did, how long would you typically have before the railroad could rightly expect to have you report brighteyed and bushy tailed?

[ValleyX]

It's so hard to explain because people simply have a hard time believing that anyone would put up with it yet there are plenty of us who do it and have done it for years because . . .well, because it's what we do or we love it or we have a love/hate relationship with it or because we hate it but it's too late to change or because it's what we do.

Most through freight employees are on call, in a traditional freight pool, when you arrive at your home or away-from-home terminal, you go to the bottom of the board, being so many times out. As they call crews for service, you move up in the rotation and when you get first out, you get the next train. There's nothing set in stone as to what train you might get or exactly when you'll get it.

The only way to be certain that you'll not be subject to call is to mark off, taking your name off the availability list, so to speak. Engineers have the option of taking personal days, which will compensate you a day, marking off personal, which compensates you nothing for time lost, or vacation days.

Company frowns heavily on missing calls, as you call it not answering the bell. Doing this with any kind of frequency will lead to discipline, doing it on a regular basis will lead to a short railroad career

If you're subject to call, you'd best not have a "glow on". Serious repercussions for being caught. Best not to do it.

There are locations on different railroads where different kinds of freight pools have been created, with assigned days off or assigned trains. I think that all CSX engineers have a scheduled day off every week. What I have described is the traditional freight pools.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Ok, everybody hears about the good side of the engineers job,k but at the same time, it's still a job. Jobs are funny in th way they can take things one normally enjoys doing and makes it decidedly less fun, because it becomes no longer your choice, rather it is your responsibility.

I read about the "gravy" stories, where,..due to scheduling an engineer might get lucky and get in his entire work week in 3 and a fraction days, then has the rest of the week "off" for his week end,...but under normal conditions, how secure is that time off? How secure are your normal weekends off? Can you (barring an emergency like a train wreck or other "masters ox is in the ditch" type company emergencies etc) COUNT ON the days off you were told you'd have off, or are you always just "one phonecall away" from having to trash whatever plans you may have made? And if so, does that happen rarely/frequently?

And are you in big trouble if you can't answer the bell?

A possible scenario that cues my interest, suppose you were expecting Friday and saturday off. A friend is getting married and you are planning to tie one on at his reception Friday night.

So, after putting in your day thursday, you go home sleep your 8 hours, spend the day at the wedding, and that night you have a healthy glow going by 10 PM.

How safe can you feel you're not going to get "the call" forcing you into work, and if you did, how long would you typically have before the railroad could rightly expect to have you report brighteyed and bushy tailed?

AuntyG-

Being an Engineer or Conductor you have to live with a lot. A lot of rules, safety rules, operating rules, interlocking rules, pay rules, union rules, collective bargaining rules, railroad retirement rules and the list goes on. So, yeah, its not recreation, its a job.

There are basically three ways we work depending upon how much seniority you have.

1. Typically the lowest seniority job is the Extra List or Extra Board. This is a list kept for each terminal of qualifed people in a particular craft. For example in my terminal we have An Engineer's XL, a Conductor's XL and a Trainman's XL. Brakemen are drawn from the Trainman's list. Depending upon the size of the terminal these lists may have 3 or 4 men or as many as 25 or 30 or even more. Terminals with more than one division have XLs for each one. Union local chairmen of the craft union typically have control over the size of the list with their management counterparts (TM or Terminal Supt.).

On the XL you may be called at any time 24/7 for any train from your terminal or any outlying point the terminal provides manpower to. You are literally always on call. The only way to not be on call is to mark off. You can mark off "sick" or "with permission". Permission is obtained from your local TM or RFE or from the crew management supervisor on duty. The Company keeps track of both as well as any missed calls. A missed call is anytime the crew caller calls and you are unreachable. So basically you need to have your grip packed and a lunch ready in the fridge at all times. Also I give the caller my cellphone number so I can be out and about and still not miss a call when I am working extra (I seldom do this anymore).

2. The Freight Pool requires a bit more seniority to hold. Some freight pools are very high seniority (typically your step on step off jobs like COFC/TOFC). Others are intermediate seniority such as manifests making regular stops along the way. These trains typically are "assigned" or "unassigned" with the assigned having regular assigned trains, while the unassigned taking the next available train. As freight pools are pretty good money jobs due to the mileage they are not usually held by younger men.

3. The "Regular Job". This is often the highest seniority work. These are the locals and yard jobs that work a regular shift on the basis of a job posting. They work 5 or 6 days per week and often allow for more time away from the railroad. You can actually sleep in your own bed most of the time.

No matter which of the three job types your seniority allows you to hold there are always those calls from the crew caller when the railroad is short men. This usually happens in the summer (vacations), the fall (Christmas Rush) and whenever such things as deer season occur. If you are good to the callers they will often remember you when work is scarce. Of course, you need to balance this against the needs of your life as well. As to drinking at a wedding, well, I think the above rules give you an idea of how that might be accomplished. I wouldn't try it too often...

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX



Most through freight employees are on call, in a traditional freight pool, when you arrive at your home or away-from-home terminal, you go to the bottom of the board, being so many times out. As they call crews for service, you move up in the rotation and when you get first out, you get the next train. There's nothing set in stone as to what train you might get or exactly when you'll get it.

The only way to be certain that you'll not be subject to call is to mark off, taking your name off the availability list, so to speak. Engineers have the option of taking personal days, which will compensate you a day, marking off personal, which compensates you nothing for time lost, or vacation days.

Company frowns heavily on missing calls, as you call it not answering the bell. Doing this with any kind of frequency will lead to discipline, doing it on a regular basis will lead to a short railroad career

If you're subject to call, you'd best not have a "glow on". Serious repercussions for being caught. Best not to do it.

OK, thanks for the info..

So if I've got it right, basically your "weekend" is however long it takes for your name to work it's way up to the top of the list? Thats not so bad, seemingly one would get a "feel" for the board after a while (barring the exception or emergency) and have a fairly clear picture of what a normal work week should look like.

I used drinking as an example becuse it was the first "removed from the normal world" example I could think of, but other examples might be that once a year planned fishing weekend with the boys, and the picture I had gotten was one that made the engineer almost a prisoner in his own house on his time off, having to be waiting by the phone for that ominous "call"

I guess like all companies these days , they try to avoid paying overtime whenever possible? That probably helps too.

So, tell me, in actual practice, over the last year how many full two day weekends have you enjoyed off work as planned? Most, some, few, all? What I'm trying to do is quantify the "threat" of that ominous call to the employees peace of mind.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Ok, everybody hears about the good side of the engineers job,k but at the same time, it's still a job. Jobs are funny in th way they can take things one normally enjoys doing and makes it decidedly less fun, because it becomes no longer your choice, rather it is your responsibility.

I read about the "gravy" stories, where,..due to scheduling an engineer might get lucky and get in his entire work week in 3 and a fraction days, then has the rest of the week "off" for his week end,...but under normal conditions, how secure is that time off? How secure are your normal weekends off? Can you (barring an emergency like a train wreck or other "masters ox is in the ditch" type company emergencies etc) COUNT ON the days off you were told you'd have off, or are you always just "one phonecall away" from having to trash whatever plans you may have made? And if so, does that happen rarely/frequently?

And are you in big trouble if you can't answer the bell?

A possible scenario that cues my interest, suppose you were expecting Friday and saturday off. A friend is getting married and you are planning to tie one on at his reception Friday night.

So, after putting in your day thursday, you go home sleep your 8 hours, spend the day at the wedding, and that night you have a healthy glow going by 10 PM.

How safe can you feel you're not going to get "the call" forcing you into work, and if you did, how long would you typically have before the railroad could rightly expect to have you report brighteyed and bushy tailed?

AuntyG-

Being an Engineer or Conductor you have to live with a lot. A lot of rules, safety rules, operating rules, interlocking rules, pay rules, union rules, collective bargaining rules, railroad retirement rules and the list goes on. So, yeah, its not recreation, its a job.

There are basically three ways we work depending upon how much seniority you have.

1. Typically the lowest seniority job is the Extra List or Extra Board. This is a list kept for each terminal of qualifed people in a particular craft. For example in my terminal we have An Engineer's XL, a Conductor's XL and a Trainman's XL. Brakemen are drawn from the Trainman's list. Depending upon the size of the terminal these lists may have 3 or 4 men or as many as 25 or 30 or even more. Terminals with more than one division have XLs for each one. Union local chairmen of the craft union typically have control over the size of the list with their management counterparts (TM or Terminal Supt.).

On the XL you may be called at any time 24/7 for any train from your terminal or any outlying point the terminal provides manpower to. You are literally always on call. The only way to not be on call is to mark off. You can mark off "sick" or "with permission". Permission is obtained from your local TM or RFE or from the crew management supervisor on duty. The Company keeps track of both as well as any missed calls. A missed call is anytime the crew caller calls and you are unreachable. So basically you need to have your grip packed and a lunch ready in the fridge at all times. Also I give the caller my cellphone number so I can be out and about and still not miss a call when I am working extra (I seldom do this anymore).

2. The Freight Pool requires a bit more seniority to hold. Some freight pools are very high seniority (typically your step on step off jobs like COFC/TOFC). Others are intermediate seniority such as manifests making regular stops along the way. These trains typically are "assigned" or "unassigned" with the assigned having regular assigned trains, while the unassigned taking the next available train. As freight pools are pretty good money jobs due to the mileage they are not usually held by younger men.

3. The "Regular Job". This is often the highest seniority work. These are the locals and yard jobs that work a regular shift on the basis of a job posting. They work 5 or 6 days per week and often allow for more time away from the railroad. You can actually sleep in your own be most of the time.

No matter which of the three job types your seniority allows you to hold there are always those calls from the crew caler when the railroad is short men. This usually happens in the summer (vacations), the fall (Christmas Rush) and whenever such things as deer season occur. If you are good to the callers they will often remember you when work is scarce. Of course, you need to balance this against the needs of your life as well. As to drinking at a wedding, well, I think the above rules give you an idea of how that might be accomplished. I wouldn't try it too often...

LC

Thanks LC. I guess the really unexpected calls always come at the worst possible time, and that's the same with every company. No way to avoid that.

The funny thing about the drinking question is, that while I gave up drinking 16 years ago so it wouldn't bother me now, back in the day where my weekends usually had a beer in my hand, the "always on call" aspect would have been really annoying. You know- just get a good glow going and ~RING!~ That would be a pain

LOL, I thought maybe that might account for some of the "drinking on the job" horror stories I've heard....In the sense of "Why not? can't drink off the job, waiting for the darn phone to ring" [:o)]

[Anonymous]

Too add a little tidbit in --

In the case of BC Rail (now a fallen flag to CN) there was a huge hiring spree back in the 70s, and they basically had hired very few people since then.

Well it worked out that a lot of guys hired in March of that year ended up with enough seniority to hold some nice yard jobs, yet people hired on in April of the same year have never made it off the spare board in the last 30 years.

When they hired people in such a large group in such a short span of time, the day you started truly affected the rest of your life.....

[ValleyX]

The only way to be assured of a weekend is to be marked off, not available for call. This can be accomplished by being off personal business, personal days, vacation, or the always ominous sick.

As for being a prisoner in your own house, it used to be that way before the days of pagers and then cellphones. There were times, if you were home alone, that you didn't hardly dare leave the house, couldn't mow the grass, etc., etc., if you were first out or in any danger of getting called. Nothing like being first out on the extra board the first part of the week when it would be slowest and be there two or three days, hanging there first out. One fellow I knew had a loud bell on the outside of his garage hooked up to his telephone. Even the first cordless phones were a blessing.

If you want to go fishing, mark off and go, that's the only way to have fun.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

The only way to be assured of a weekend is to be marked off, not available for call. This can be accomplished by being off personal business, personal days, vacation, or the always ominous sick.

As for being a prisoner in your own house, it used to be that way before the days of pagers and then cellphones. There were times, if you were home alone, that you didn't hardly dare leave the house, couldn't mow the grass, etc., etc., if you were first out or in any danger of getting called. Nothing like being first out on the extra board the first part of the week when it would be slowest and be there two or three days, hanging there first out. One fellow I knew had a loud bell on the outside of his garage hooked up to his telephone. Even the first cordless phones were a blessing.

If you want to go fishing, mark off and go, that's the only way to have fun.

Thanks!!

Last question: If one "marks off" , is there (in general practice) much friction to be encountered when you return to "mark back on"?

[Anonymous]

AG-

The term is to "mark up". No, marking up isn't usually a problem. You simply call the crew caller and have them show you as marked up and ready for service. Depending upon how you are working, see above, you simply drop back on to the bottom of the XL or back into your crew assignment if you are on a pool or local crew. If you are on a pool and your turn is at the away terminal you will probably not be called until your turn is back in your home terminal and rested.

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

AG-

The term is to "mark up". No, marking up isn't usually a problem. You simply call the crew caller and have them show you as marked up and ready for service. Depending upon how you are working, see above, you simply drop back on to the bottom of the XL or back into your crew assignment if you are on a pool or local crew. If you are on a pool and your turn is at the away terminal you will probably not be called until your turn is back in your home terminal and rested.

LC

Thanks LC.

Though it might not be obvious from the way I've pursued this, my primary interest has been to try and understand how you guys make "manageable" a job condition that looks , as ValleyX put it, seemingly " hard to put up with".

Now it makes more sense.

Violating my earlier commitment of "one last question", because it would seem to me that everything has a "down side" one way or the other, and since "marking off" is not seen as a "bad thing" from the company' POV, is there a down side from The Engineers POV? For instance, is there much risk that if you "mark off" for two days (after a 40 hour week) that by doing so you may not/likely will not make your 40 hours the following week because of it? In other words, , is staying "marked on" constantly the only safe way to assure a full work week?