Wisconsin DOT vs. Canadian National

[wcfan4ever]

Came across the following on the Wisconsin Southern YahooGroup. Interesting how its not just railfans that dont like the CN. In replies to this, I guess the loggers in the north are very mad with CN. Everyone wants something done with them. Personally, I could care less if they keep the Superoir to Chicago line but give the customers a railroad who is gonna listen. Give the north end to LS&I, ELS, or a new shortline. The south can go to WSOR, UP, CP, or another new shortline. Here it is:

I heard today that several members from the WisDOT Transportation Committee held a special session at the Capitol Building to hear about how bad it is when dealing with the CN. John Ainsworth,
Chairman of this committee called this special session. Ainsworth and about 10 members of the transportation committee drilled the CN representatives for over 3 ½ hours. This could be the start of something if the State of Wisconsin gets involved and tells the world how things change for the worst when the CN moves in and takes over.

[Randy Stahl]

I'd like to see a dozen lumber jacks show up at CN HQ and give Harrison a black eye.
Randy

[Randy Stahl]

WHY did they wait so long to complain and WHY aren't they complaining to the STB?????? Lets see the shippers didn't benefit from the merger as promised, the employees didn't benefit as promised,, ...Oh wait .... The rich guys benefitted as promised. I think the STB needs to figure out just who does benefit from these mega mergers, it sure isn't the majority!!!!!!
Randy

[rvos1979]

I guess the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

It'd be nice if the CN would quit fighting and sell the WSOR the West Bend and Plymouth subs, wishful thinking, I guess. [sigh]

Randy Vos

[zardoz]

I was in West Bend a few days ago on business and noticed that the CN is pulling up the old CNW tracks through town. I did not have the chance to survey any of the surrounding area to see if the whole subdivision was being torn up, or just through town.

Rather short-sighted it seems to me. If the rumor that the CN is going to get the BNSF traffic from Chicago to Superior, the CN just might need the extra capacity.

I'm fairly sure this sort of thinking on the part of CN management comes as no surprise to those who enjoyed working for the WC and now are forced to work for the CN.

[Anonymous]

That's the CN cycle.

Take over Railway.
Fire 90% of the employees.
Abandon as much track as possible.
Cut the traffic to 1 train a week.
**** on another fallen flag.

It's a fairly continuous cycle.

[wcfan4ever]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

I was in West Bend a few days ago on business and noticed that the CN is pulling up the old CNW tracks through town. I did not have the chance to survey any of the surrounding area to see if the whole subdivision was being torn up, or just through town.

Rather short-sighted it seems to me. If the rumor that the CN is going to get the BNSF traffic from Chicago to Superior, the CN just might need the extra capacity.

I'm fairly sure this sort of thinking on the part of CN management comes as no surprise to those who enjoyed working for the WC and now are forced to work for the CN.

Were the tracks pulled up north or south of the depot. I know that north of the depot the tracks were torn out but I was unaware of any removal south of that location.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

An issue that hasn't been mentioned is how much do these customers ship? If they are asking CN to keep a line in place for occasional truck-size loads, then it's awfully hard to be sympathetic to their plight.
As was mentioned above, why was this issue not brought up earlier with the STB?

[wcfan4ever]

As far I know, logging is very big in the state. There are more shippers than none that want more than one car a day! I heard not too long ago about a shipping that asked for 40-50 cars and CN did not supply and basically told them to truck it in. They dropped rail service cause the railroad would not cooperate with them.

[CliqueofOne]

WisBusiness: State stuck for solutions to railroad's service cuts
8/6/2004

By Joanne M. Haas
For WisBusiness.com

http://www.wisbusiness.com/index.iml?Article=21324

When the Wisconsin Central Transportation Corp. stockholders approved the merger agreement with Canadian National Railway Co. on April 4, 2001, Thomas F. Power, the chief executive officer and president of the Wisconsin rail, praised the deal.

"The merger...is the best transaction for our shippers, stockholders and employees," Power said that day.

Things have changed.

More than three years later, Ken Morris of Northwoods Distributions Services in Rhinelander was complaining about the sudden notification by Canadian National of its plans to slice its service from five days to three days per week.

Morris, the firm's general manager, says Northwoods has a history of supporting the railway by increasing its volume levels and use of rail cars. So this slash of service is bad news.

"Canadian National is making a change to benefit themselves short term," Morris said. "In the long run this change will hurt not only Canadian National's profitability but also local businesses."

And that's the reoccurring theme state lawmakers have been hearing from northern Wisconsin businesses growing ulcers as they contemplate their futures if Canadian National slices its service days.

The Assembly Transportation Committee led an informational hearing this week regarding what appears to be the slow demise of rail service in the northern region. And, as a state transportation official testified, there may be next to nothing the state or local officials and business leaders can do about it.

Democrat Rep. Gary Sherman of Port Wing and Republican Rep. Don Friske of Merrill asked committee chair Rep. John Ainsworth, R-Shawano, to call the meeting after each heard repeated complaints about a slow decline in service provided the northern counties by Canadian National. Sherman said rail service is vital to the northern communities, where forest products are a major industry. Since the Canadian rail company purchased Wisconsin Central in 2001. Sherman says constituents have complained about a decline in service coupled with a "radical, unprecedented increase in rates."

Friske says it was no single story nor incident that prompted him to ask for the hearing, but a "reoccurring theme" and he wanted to learn if the problems were legitimate and what could be done.

The answer, at the state and local level, is nothing. Ron Adams, director of the state's Bureau of Rails and Harbors in the transportation department, told the committee due to a federal law change rail companies can nearly do what they'd like.

"Railroads are largely free of economic regulations at any level," Adams said, adding the companies can add and drop lines as they like. "The state has little to say about it."

Transportation consultant Kevin Soucie was asked to check with his client -- Canadian National -- and report back to Friske and Sherman. Depending upon the report, another meeting may be called to discuss what, if anything, can be done.

The state does own about 550 miles of rail lines in the southern areas as part of its rail program. Statewide, about a dozen freight railroads operate on about 3,500 miles of rail line in 36 counties, carrying items such as pulp and paper and coal.




[:(!][V]

[wcfan4ever]

This morning, IC E-Units 100 and 101 went through my hometown of Manitowoc, WI. They were headed to Cleveland, WI with five passenger cars. Found out that Hunter Harrison was on board. I then decided to head down to Cleveland to see this...well whatever you want to call him. With railfans and photographers everywhere, he never came off the train. Word had it he was to arrive and head right the golf course. Did the railfans scare him? I mean he hired a security team for him and his train the arrived just minutes before the train came. CN dosen't care about the public. I was told to get off railroad property standing a mere 40ft from the edge of the ties. Then I was told I can take as many photos as I want and enjoy the train but if I step off public property, I WILL BE ARRESTED and ALL my camera equipment and film(disk) will be taken away. The train will be sitting there til the 15th and security will be taking care of the train. It makes me wonder about the shippers, do they treat them the same way? I can see it now, RR Tells Customer To Stay of Tracks Inside Building! Can it get any worse?

[Randy Stahl]

I'ts a fact that Harrison is afraid, since the CAW strike he has employed a large security force. My advice is stay away from him.
Randy

[wcfan4ever]

Advice taken, I don't want to get too close anyways, now after seen the force of security gaurds he has.

Anyways, there are two photos that were accepted onto Railpictures of the train...just follow my link to my Railpicture photos.

[CliqueofOne]

"Nor do we hear CN's side of the story -- there's no indication the author even bothered to ask. She allows one side to drive the story and never checks up on their motives."

"It's a perfect example of why so much that forms our opinions of railroads rests on quicksand."


If anyone wishes to see a shining example of professional and unbiased journalism, you only have to read the November 2002 issue of Trains. Even the front cover gives me the shivers. CANADIAN NATIONAL: WORLD'S BEST Yes. Really! It was good to read the workers perspective on how the CNR was being managed. I'm sure their stories of how well they are being treated by their foreign masters would fill many thousands of Trains magazines. The company spin doctors must have twirled in glee when that issue of Trains hit the shelves. Best propaganda CN could have received for free. Unfortunately it was mostly Bull****. I wonder how many greedy investors went out and bought shares in the company when they read this misleading piece of garbage.
Clique of One. Signal Mechanic. Signal Department. Canadian National Railways. [:(!][V]

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wcfan4ever

Were the tracks pulled up north or south of the depot. I know that north of the depot the tracks were torn out but I was unaware of any removal south of that location.

I am not sure where the depot is in relation to where I was (Hwy 33). The tracks looked to be in the process of being removed. This location is just south of the "big bend" in the river, between Washington and Water streets. I've been hoping for an opportunity to return there with time to check things out.

[fuzzybroken]

The depot is just south of WIS-33, and the line to the north is abandoned. Apparently, West Bend wants the railroad out of its downtown, from what I gather.

-Mark
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[fuzzybroken]

Wisconsin Central was a great railroad. They were very customer-friendly, and pretty much bought up all the track in Wisconsin north of the Soo/CP and C&NW/UP, all in the name of improving service. And improve service they did!!! And the customers loved it. They ended up with a monopoly of track in northern Wisconsin.

WC abandoned some lines, too, but those were lines that were really truly unprofitable. But they also abandoned a few lines just to keep their "competitors" out, the ones that were really just the big railroads that spun off the lines that were unprofitable because of their own poor service.

Then WC upset their shareholders, and in came the CN, buying a vital link in their system. Great! But what was CN? One of those big railroads, with the poor service to those "less-profitable" customers.

So, guess what happens? Well, once the CN "culture" took over the WC, those shippers that had problems with the railroad before the WC came along now have the same problems, or worse. And this is a situation that has played out time after time for years. CN really only wants the mainline. Why not sell off the branch lines and secondary lines to other operators, eager to help those low-volume customers? Pick up better volume from bigger customers (these new railroads), keep the main line running, everybody's happy?

Well, we'll see what happens. I sure would hate to see more abandoned railroads in Wisconsin.

-Mark
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[wcfan4ever]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fuzzybroken

The depot is just south of WIS-33, and the line to the north is abandoned. Apparently, West Bend wants the railroad out of its downtown, from what I gather.

-Mark
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

Thats news to me. I heard the WSOR wants line. I do know they wanted to take the tracks out that cross Hwy 33 though. Only, leave the tracks that reach the depot, for what reason, I don't know, there is no business there. It's gonna be interesting to see what happens with the line.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz


Rather short-sighted it seems to me. If the rumor that the CN is going to get the BNSF traffic from Chicago to Superior, the CN just might need the extra capacity.

Its very interesting to me,since for the past three weeks,I have been seeing quite a few BNSF locomotives pass through the Fond Du Lac yard heading South to Chicago,in the very early and sometimes wee hours of the morning.Today I spotted BNSF 8863 and NS 9110 heading to the South part of the yard. Does anyone know where these BNSF locomotives are going to or coming from?[%-)]

[wcfan4ever]

They have been seen on A410 a lot. They are not all that uncommon in CN days. It's all related to the power pools. Plus I'm also sure that if an NS and BNSF came up from Chicago with a train for Green Bay, they would end up taking it to Green Bay. Back in WC days, the power might not have even made it up to FDL. I know WC always wanted thier power. Now it not uncommon to see NS, CSX, UP, BNSF, and other in places like Green Bay and Stevens Point. UP SD70M's are a common visitor to CN rails on freights instead of the usual C44AC or 90MAC on the coal trains.

[Junctionfan]

I wonder who paid for Harrison's security force? Him or the shareholders?

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

WHY did they wait so long to complain and WHY aren't they complaining to the STB?????? Lets see the shippers didn't benefit from the merger as promised, the employees didn't benefit as promised,, ...Oh wait .... The rich guys benefitted as promised. I think the STB needs to figure out just who does benefit from these mega mergers, it sure isn't the majority!!!!!!
Randy

Randy:

(1) The problem with the STB (and the ICC before it) is that it is an underfunded and mis-understood organization that operates in in its own insulated little world (Washington, DC) and reacts to what little it gets back from the outside world which is usually lawyers that want to keep STB isolated.

(2) STB's public accessability is extremely limited. It is a small miracle that they are web accessable at all. Best analogy I can think of is that they are a bunch of cloistered monks - well meaning, but totally out of touch.

(3) Wisconsin Dept. of Railroads and WsDOT have some limited regulatory weight, but when the department officers have no railroad background to begin with, that authority has been seriously diluted. (Highway experience does NOT translate easilly to railroad savvy......Most of those "transportation" people are totally clueless if you take rubber tired modes of transportation out of the equation.

I don't know which was worse, initial opposition to WC being "borg-ed" or the method of complaining about service failures now...

[wcfan4ever]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I wonder who paid for Harrison's security force? Him or the shareholders?

Why should he have to pay for anything? He's the owner...in his eyes, its more or less like make everyone else pay. He sure is making all the customers pay...but not supplying them with what they need.

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wcfan4ever

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I wonder who paid for Harrison's security force? Him or the shareholders?

Why should he have to pay for anything? He's the owner...in his eyes, its more or less like make everyone else pay. He sure is making all the customers pay...but not supplying them with what they need.

Isn't that the truth. The lies from him that the company is doing well drops likes perls from his mouth. Too bad he wasn't an oyster than he might have been worth something.