Trains.com

SD Mean

14545 views
23 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2008
  • From: Geauga County Ohio
  • 521 posts
SD Mean
Posted by wrawroacx on Monday, September 21, 2009 1:04 PM

What does SD mean, like SD70 and SD40?

Tom My Videos - http://www.youtube.com/user/MrWrawroacx
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, September 21, 2009 1:11 PM

Special Duty, as compared to GP - General Purpose.

RS = Road Switcher, BTW.

IIRC, it comes from the early days of Dieseldom, when pretty much everything freight had four axles.  It would take some special requirement to require six axles, so such a locomotive would be built to handle some special duty...

Today, of course, the designations are relatively meaningless in that context.   One could argue that these days, the SD is really general purpose and the GP is used to fill special duties....

Locomotive designators is really kind of an interesting study...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Monday, September 21, 2009 1:20 PM

Special Duty, Super Duty, or Six axel duty, depending on who you talked to on different railroads or around EMD..  GP was General Purpose as EMD sent out its first GP7's and 9's with that designation, the SD9's having six axels.  All GP designated units had four axel trucks and became Geeps although purists insist that the only real Geep was either a 7 or a 9.  I am a purist.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    May 2002
  • 318 posts
Posted by JayPotter on Monday, September 21, 2009 1:23 PM

When EMD introduced its first six-motor locomotive in 1952, it designated it as the SD7; and the "SD" signified "special duty", which referred primarily to the fact that the six motors made it better suited than four-motor units for low-speed heavy-tonnage assignments.  When EMD introduced the "40" series locomotives (including the SD-38, SD40, and SD45), it ceased marketing SDs as "special duty" locomotives and began referring to them as "mainline" locomotives; however it never changed the letter designation.  So I guess that "SD" no longer means a special-duty EMD locomotive but still means a six-motor EMD locomotive.

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Monday, September 21, 2009 2:17 PM

Just corroborating / 'piling on', but also with a citation to the Trains article on 'Locomotive Model Abbreviations' in the ''ABCs of Railroading'' series - http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=ss&id=13 - at:

http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=a&id=207

GP  = General Purpose
SD  = Special Duty

- PDN.

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    May 2002
  • 318 posts
Posted by JayPotter on Monday, September 21, 2009 3:01 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr

http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=a&id=207

GP  = General Purpose
SD  = Special Duty

 

When EMD introduced the "60"-series locomotives, it stopped referring to GP's as "general purpose" locomotives and began including them, along with the SDs, in the "mainline" locomotive category.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Norfolk Southern Lafayette District
  • 1,642 posts
Posted by bubbajustin on Monday, September 21, 2009 4:08 PM

Yes

SD = special duty

GP = general purpose

RS = road switcher

Also, for example ON EMD’s SD Series, “M” Designation means wide cab like SD70M, SD60M SD40-2M etc.

You probably know this already but with the GE product ES mean Evolution Series, AC means alternating current.

On the older loco’s Alco “C” Means Century Series.

Hope this helps,

Justin

The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Monday, September 21, 2009 5:00 PM

IIRC the early SD units could be ordered either with C-C arrangement (two three-axle trucks, all six axles powered) or A1A-A1A where the center axle in each truck was an unpowered idler. The A1A trucks were usefull for railroads that didn't need the additional lugging power of six motors vs. four, but wanted to spread out the weight per axle so they could use them on lighter rails.

Alco originally used "DL" (Diesel Locomotive) in the names of their diesels, if memory serves what came to be called an RS-11 was referred to by Alco as a DL-600(??) Also RSD units had six wheel trucks, RS units had two axle trucks. The Century series was mainly different from the contemporary RS and RSD lines of the sixties in that the Century series had the cab pushed forward to allow room for a steam boiler for passenger service...even though few were ever ordered with steam generators. 

Stix
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Elmwood Park, NJ
  • 2,385 posts
Posted by trainfan1221 on Monday, September 21, 2009 6:40 PM

It meant Special Duty, more referring to early diesels when six axle power wasn't the norm.  GP was indeed General Purpose, and referred to as Geeps.  I believe pronounced the same as the military vehicles but spelled differently.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Monday, September 21, 2009 6:52 PM

Don't confuse C-C with A-1-A!  C-C meant all three axels were powered while A-1-A indicated a powered axel-an idler axel- a powered axel. I never heard a PA or E unit ever considered SD; SD was Special Duty with six powered axels.  GP was prounounced Geep, but only GP7's and 9's are officially accepted as Geeps, everything after that are "G-P's" but often miscalled Geeps.  As I said, I am a purist.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Elmwood Park, NJ
  • 2,385 posts
Posted by trainfan1221 on Monday, September 21, 2009 7:04 PM

You are right, E units were definitely not SDs.  THe A1A truck was used to help distribute the weight over more axles on these big units, but only 4 powered.  This of course also helped with their speed with a highed HP per axle rating.

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, September 21, 2009 7:06 PM
I've never heard of an EMD hood unit with A1A trucks. Alco had some: I think the RSC-3 was the A1A-A1A equivalent of an RS-3 (the C-C version was an RSD-5).

I believe every Alco locomotive model had its DL specification as well. For some reason, certain models (DL640, for one), were better known by this specification than by their actual model designation (RS-27).

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Elmwood Park, NJ
  • 2,385 posts
Posted by trainfan1221 on Monday, September 21, 2009 7:10 PM

I never even tried to figure out all the Alco designations, then you figure in MLW and it really gets confusing.  EMD to the best of my knowledge never did have an A1A hood unit, though they certainly experimented with some fancy trucks over the years. 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Central New York
  • 335 posts
Posted by MJChittick on Monday, September 21, 2009 8:09 PM

Between 1958 and 1960, EMD (Canada), known then as General Motors Diesel (GMD, Ltd) in London, ON built 101 light road switcher units for Canadian consuption only, the GMD1.  Of these the majority (83) were equipped with A-1-A Flexicoil trucks.  The remaining 18 were built with B-B Flexicoil trucks and steam generators for the CN.  The A-1-A GMD1s were built for CN and Northern Alberta.

 

Mike

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • 573 posts
Posted by pajrr on Monday, September 21, 2009 8:11 PM

    The Alco RS series came in 3 wheel arrangements. B-B, A1A- A1A, and C-C. The 4 axle unit was the standard RS, the A1A version was the RSC, and the C-C models were RSD. With ALCO Centuries, the first number was the number of powered axles, the 2nd and 3rd # were horsepower in 100's. Thus a C430 was a four axle, 3,000 hp unit. A C630 was a six axle, 3,000 hp unit.

    I believe that with Montreal built units , the numbers were the same but the letter was M instead of C. Thus the M630 was a Montreal built six axle, 3,000 hp unit. Maybe someone out there can verify this.

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: Calgary
  • 2,047 posts
Posted by cx500 on Monday, September 21, 2009 11:52 PM

pajrr


    I believe that with Montreal built units , the numbers were the same but the letter was M instead of C. Thus the M630 was a Montreal built six axle, 3,000 hp unit. Maybe someone out there can verify this.

 

Nearly correct, but the switch to the "M" designation occurred after ALCO ceased to build locomotives.  The C424s built by MLW were C424s, and in fact MLW outshopped the first Century model rather than Schenectady.  The first MLW C630s seem to be designated as C630M, although this might possibly be of railfan origin.  MLW used the Dofasco High Adhesion truck, quite different from the ALCO equivalent, for all the 6-motor production.  The M-series included the M630, M636, M640 and several variants of the M420.

The final freight models from MLW, the HR412 and HR616, used yet another system.  The first digit was the number of axles and the next two were the number of cylinders.  HR stood for "High Reliability" but it seems they didn't quite match the reliability of the SD40-2.

John

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:59 PM

CShaveRR
I've never heard of an EMD hood unit with A1A trucks. Alco had some: I think the RSC-3 was the A1A-A1A equivalent of an RS-3 (the C-C version was an RSD-5).

 

I believe every Alco locomotive model had its DL specification as well. For some reason, certain models (DL640, for one), were better known by this specification than by their actual model designation (RS-27).

 

All EMD E units were A-1-A!  And the FL9's of New Haven fame were B-B in front and A-1-A on the rear truck.  I don't believe there were any others in the EMD stable.  ALCO/GE had the PA of course. I am not sure if any other manufacturer had an A-1-A locomotive.  All other units were either B-B, C-C or D-D.  Alco/GE RS were B-B but the RSC was a C-C unit, not A-1-A. 

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: NW Wisconsin
  • 3,857 posts
Posted by beaulieu on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:46 PM

henry6

All EMD E units were A-1-A!  And the FL9's of New Haven fame were B-B in front and A-1-A on the rear truck.  I don't believe there were any others in the EMD stable.  ALCO/GE had the PA of course. I am not sure if any other manufacturer had an A-1-A locomotive.  All other units were either B-B, C-C or D-D.  Alco/GE RS were B-B but the RSC was a C-C unit, not A-1-A. 

 

Alco RSC locomotives had A1A trucks, the much more common early C-C trucked Alco hood-units were type RSD. Seaboard Air Line and the Soo Line RR bought most of the RSC Alcos.  Baldwin also built A1A trucked locomotives. They built A1A Cab Units for the PRR with the shark-nose model DR6-4-2000 and hood units for various railroads including models AS416.  Early Fairbanks Morse "Erie-built" passenger locomotives were also A1A trucked.

 

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Naples, FL
  • 848 posts
Posted by Ted Marshall on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:03 AM

henry6

I am not sure if any other manufacturer had an A-1-A locomotive. 

FWIW, BNSF's new GE AC44C4 locomotives, #6600 - 6624, which were released earlier this year are configured with a pretty interesting A-1-A wheel arrangement:

http://tinyurl.com/m5khhe

After an extended absense from the list, it's great to be back. Hello gang... Sign - Welcome

 

 


 

  • Member since
    July 2001
  • From: Shelbyville, Kentucky
  • 1,967 posts
Posted by SSW9389 on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:22 AM

Trainfan I did some quick fact checking and found that EMD/GMD built over 500 A1A-A1A hood units. They also built some 1B-B1 hood units. It all just depends on where you look stuff up.

Ed 

trainfan1221

I never even tried to figure out all the Alco designations, then you figure in MLW and it really gets confusing.  EMD to the best of my knowledge never did have an A1A hood unit, though they certainly experimented with some fancy trucks over the years. 

COTTON BELT: Runs like a Blue Streak!
  • Member since
    July 2001
  • From: Shelbyville, Kentucky
  • 1,967 posts
Posted by SSW9389 on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:28 AM

Mike: GMD also built 10 A1A-A1A G8s for CN. 

Ed 

MJChittick

Between 1958 and 1960, EMD (Canada), known then as General Motors Diesel (GMD, Ltd) in London, ON built 101 light road switcher units for Canadian consuption only, the GMD1.  Of these the majority (83) were equipped with A-1-A Flexicoil trucks.  The remaining 18 were built with B-B Flexicoil trucks and steam generators for the CN.  The A-1-A GMD1s were built for CN and Northern Alberta.

 

COTTON BELT: Runs like a Blue Streak!
  • Member since
    July 2001
  • From: Shelbyville, Kentucky
  • 1,967 posts
Posted by SSW9389 on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:54 AM

Ted: I found that GE is reluctant to build A1A-A1A locomotives, but did build some in the past. There were GE A1A-A1A switchers built by GE licensees as early as 1950. Also GE exported some A1A-A1A U15s to the Sudan in 1975 and 1981 plus built some A1A-A1A U18s for Indonesia in 1977. So this new move by GE and BNSF with the AC44C4 will be interesting to watch to see if it is developed further or if more orders come in for the type.

Ed 

Ted Marshall

henry6

I am not sure if any other manufacturer had an A-1-A locomotive. 

FWIW, BNSF's new GE AC44C4 locomotives, #6600 - 6624, which were released earlier this year are configured with a pretty interesting A-1-A wheel arrangement:

http://tinyurl.com/m5khhe

After an extended absense from the list, it's great to be back. Hello gang... Sign - Welcome

 

 


 

COTTON BELT: Runs like a Blue Streak!
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:33 AM

Some "C-Liners" were built with a B-A1A configuration - I suspect to deal with the weight of a boiler.  That sure would raise Cain with defect detector axle counts....

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 8,156 posts
Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:13 AM

YES!  OF COURSE!  BALDWIN SHARKS WERE A-1-A!   In may semi sleep mode last night I kept thinking Baldwin but not Sharks!!!  And the FM Erie builds I do believe had an A-1-A for Canada but not sure of the US...the B-B--A-1-A  makes sense knowing their use on the LIRR. I was not aware of any road switcher having an A-1-A wheel arragement but I also gave up keeping close tabs on locomotives after the SD45s!

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy