Links to 2 articles - read both for all the details - and an aerial photo:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/03/26/freight_car_rams_commuter_train_injuring_150/
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1082906&srvc=home&position=also
http://www3.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO76078/
In brief: The track occupancy signal circuits apparently alerted the engineer of the commuter train in time to stop. The investigation into the placement of the car on the lumber co.'s siding about 5 hours earlier is continuing - handbrakes, chocks, etc.
Wonder why it sat there for 5 hours, and then decided to move - employee error ? (recall a Mud Chicken post a couple weeks ago about industries using front-end loaders to move cars often leading to runaways and heaps of wreckage, etc.) wind ? Will be interesting to find out.
- Paul North.
....And the lumber company's derail (hop-toad/flopover) was set and was the right size?
Who bled the air off? pulled the chocks? (MANDATORY placement of chocks or skates on this spur is telling)
Also curious to see the outcome....at bare minimum, I see a split-point "alligator" derail coming to the lead of a certain lumber outfit.
I question the unnamed "rail safety expert." Said expert may have said that there should be chocks (and they may well have been required), but I got a call from the media after an incident here. The local emergency management boss put them on me because he knew I knew something about railroads and worked where it all started. In truth, I found out about the incident on the news like everyone else!
I also wonder about one passenger's report of "fire outside the cars." It was the only reference to a fire. People see the darnedest things.
As for the dust - you shake something hard enough and you'll get dust out of it. No surprise there.
I'm going along with the idea that the car may have been being moved. "That's how we've always done it...."
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I can think of about two dozen scenarios and none of them is "no harm-no foul ...oops" in nature.
Agree with Tree that the "safety expert" probably is not. (They are all well coached on how to talk to / deal with the [clueless] press the right way and this does not sound right...)
hrbdizzle wrote:5 hours is plenty of time for a car to bleed off by itself. If the car was spotted at the wrong spot, bleed off and gained speed, heavy cars such as loaded lumber cars, have been known to ride right over derails onto the main line..
With the handbrake set?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I just read an article stating that numerous violations of securement rules by CSX have been documented by FRA reports. Here's the link.
http://www.utu.org/worksite/detail_news.cfm?ArticleID=41181
MC is right, though--something will come out of the investigation, and everyone would be wise to wait and see.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR wrote: I just read an article stating that numerous violations of securement rules by CSX have been documented by FRA reports. Here's the link.http://www.utu.org/worksite/detail_news.cfm?ArticleID=41181 MC is right, though--something will come out of the investigation, and everyone would be wise to wait and see.
tree68 wrote:I also wonder about one passenger's report of "fire outside the cars." It was the only reference to a fire. People see the darnedest things.
Must've hit his head really hard....
I have a lot of respect for the engineer of that train!
wyomingrailfan wrote:funny nowadays that any accident that happens is because of human error. I bet that it was the car that is to blame, and that the load, wait- I Bet that the crew didn't tie down the car enough.
Paul_D_North_Jr wrote: Links to 2 articles - read both for all the details - and an aerial photo:http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/03/26/freight_car_rams_commuter_train_injuring_150/http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1082906&srvc=home&position=alsohttp://www3.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO76078/In brief: The track occupancy signal circuits apparently alerted the engineer of the commuter train in time to stop. The investigation into the placement of the car on the lumber co.'s siding about 5 hours earlier is continuing - handbrakes, chocks, etc. Wonder why it sat there for 5 hours, and then decided to move - employee error ? (recall a Mud Chicken post a couple weeks ago about industries using front-end loaders to move cars oftgen leading to runaways and heaps of wreckage, etc.) wind ? Will be interesting to find out.- Paul North.
Wonder why it sat there for 5 hours, and then decided to move - employee error ? (recall a Mud Chicken post a couple weeks ago about industries using front-end loaders to move cars oftgen leading to runaways and heaps of wreckage, etc.) wind ? Will be interesting to find out.
CSX Again! http://csx-sucks.com/pictures/?MMR.jpg
My biggest question is why didn't the derail stop the car?
My personal opinion is the "Flop over" style derail should not be used to protect main tracks and controlled sidings. Instead the split point type derail, wired into the signal (if any) system should be mandatory.
Agreed! A double split-point (DPSS) derail and a U-5 to set the opposing signals to red. Even if the track runs uphill to the turnout eventually someone will figure out a way to shove blind on the other end of the cut and push the other end out onto the main track. The industrial track guidelines for at least the Class Is I'm familiar with do not require a DPSS on an uphill track in all cases, but I put them in anyway because I lay at sleep at night worrying about things like this.
RWM
rrboomer wrote: My biggest question is why didn't the derail stop the car?My personal opinion is the "Flop over" style derail should not be used to protect main tracks and controlled sidings. Instead the split point type derail, wired into the signal (if any) system should be mandatory.
Do you have a picture to show the two different derails?
TYPICAL Flop-over ("Hop Toad") from Aldon's site: http://www.westernsafety.com/aldon/aldonpage2.html
W-C-H Site: http://www.wch.com/
W-C-H and Aldon supply the bulk of the fabricated sliding and flopover derails in the US...
Typical Switch Point Derail ("Alligator"):
Double Split Point: (PRR Version w/ frog) http://prr.railfan.net/standards/standards.cgi?plan=59767-- (Quick trip to nowhere) http://prr.railfan.net/standards/standards.cgi?plan=61490--
(ODD - Cannot seem to quickly find the very common [and effective] single split point derail with guardrail...)
There is some skill and know-how required to properly place a derail. Surprising how many have failed to understand some basic physics. Then again, the guy with a cape & an "R" on his chest and us dirty feathered types tend to wind up cleaning up those blunders.
Then again, we had photos on here a while back of a certain industry trying to use a rerailing frog as a derail. (and another photo of a hop-toad with a rerailing frog immediately behind it)
Luck, Luck, Luck, you have no idear how bad this could have been.
The action of the brave Union Crewmembers reduced the injuries, but it could have been much worse. The runaway car was a Bulkhead end Flat Car with a packaged load of wood. I rolled down onto the "Stoughton Branch".
The Stoughton Locals leave Boston's South Station, stop at Back Bay, then move out on the Northeast Corridor at 60 mph. After the 128 Station Stop (I-95) they open up to 80 mph until Canton Junction where it moves from the southbound track, across the northbond track to the single track "Stoughton Branch".
A station stop at Canton Junction, then Canton, and then end of line at Stoughton where the line opens up to a double track siding.
This runaway did make it through 2 Grade Crossings. Had the Commuter train not been there to hit the runaway car, the runaway car would have rolled a short distance more onto the Northeast Corridor where Acelas run at 140 mph!
Typical Stoughton Local entering the Stoughton yard.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
Hey Mudchicken -
Thanks for posting the photos and clarifying your terminology for each type. I'd looked for a photo of the "hop-toad" / flip-over/ "floppy" / "Hayes Model EB hinge-type derail" on the Western-Cullen-Hayes website, but couldn't find one there, even though it's one of their products and referenced elsewhere in that site. I'll have to dig out one of my old paper catalogs and find and scan a photo of a single-direction one and maybe post it - as you know, your photo is of a bi-directional one.
I'd very much like to see a depiction the PRR version of a Double Split-Point (with frog). I worked with 3 ex-PRR Track Supervisors and an ex-Asst. Division Engineer ("world's largest alumni club", they told me) from 1975 to 1988 and spent a lot of time plowing through the PRR's Standard Plans book, but I don't ever recall seeing or hearing about one of those.
Interestingly, even Hayes notes that cars can sometime "skip over"/ past their derails - see the 7th paragraph of "The Purpose of a Western-Cullen-Hayes Derail" at:
http://www.wch.com/derailpurpose.htm
I'm having problems accessing the prr.railfan.net links that you provided (below). Instead, I suggest trying the following for the "Single Switch Point Derail" with guardrail ("Truckside Rail ?") from the UP RR website for "Technical Specifications for Construction of Industrial Tracks" - http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/operations/specs/track/index.shtml ,
"13.00 Derails Requirements" - http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/operations/specs/track/13.shtml at:
http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/operations/specs/attachments/exhibit_i-2.pdf
The "16'-6" Double Switch Point Derail" is at:
http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/operations/specs/attachments/exhibit_i-1.pdf
The "Sliding Derail with Wheel Crowder" (see the Hayes "Purpose of A Derail" explanation referenced above) is at:
http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/operations/specs/attachments/exhibit_i-3.pdf
For more information, see the "Permanent Derail Installation Instructions" at:
http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/operations/specs/attachments/exhibit_i.pdf
Hope this is helpful.
Main Line Derailer (at Draw Bridge). Amtrak Northeast Coridor.
Click on photo to enlarge.
http://www.wch.com/wcrowder.htm
Thanks for the detail information but I have one question. What derailer is best suite for the job? I saw alot of samples but I don't work in the industry.
Depends on multiple factors:
Where?
Trying to keep on the ties?
How absolute the thing has to be thrown on the ground? (Gravity, what a concept!)
Grade? potential speed?
Car & Lading value?
Where are you trying to throw the car...?
What are you protecting?
Who sets the derail?
Use. (how often used) and purpose.
Recording of the Engineer/Dispatcher communication
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/specials/engineer_call_audio/
Not being a Bostonian, but having experienced the culture shock of being a Northerner transplanted to the South....the Bastan accent is thick and difficult to cut through.
BaltACD wrote: Recording of the Engineer/Dispatcher communication
Interesting. No problem with the accent, BTW.
I'm not sure I'd have waited for permission to back up, though. Don't know if he had enough time to actually get changed over and start backwards, but I doubt anyone would have faulted him. The collision was going to occur anyhow, and any speed backwards might have lessened the impact.
On the other hand, if he was moving backward and became incapacitated by the collision, there'd be a whole 'nother set of problems...
Yes, that could be a problem....
I know I wouldn't waited....come to think of it, I'd have gotten out of the loco...
What would the engineer stand to gain from staying in the loco? He could just get out for the actual impact, then get back in and radio the dispatcher....
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