Just wondering if we have any radio techie types out there.
I have noticed in the evening, my scanner makes the most horrible buzzing noise on the AAR channels. At first I thought it might be weak signals not quite breaking the squelch, but, when I turn up the squelch, the problem doesn't go away. I don't hear it on all of the AAR channels, (I have a 50 channel. Realistic scanner, that is about 14 years old, the 50 channels are divided between Fire/EMS frequencies, and RR frequencies.) I generally hear this noise between sundown and about 4 am. I very rarely hear it in the day time. I lock out each frequency in turn as a I hear it. I generally hear it on:
161.755, 161.040, 161.160, 160.980, and 161.740 I believe. There is a couple of others, but I can't remember which ones.
I don't think it's internal interference, i.e. something inside my apartment. Sometimes it's weak, and it lasts for a split second and is gone, and other times, such as during the storms the other night, I don't hear it at all. But, since the storms, it has been loud, clear and constant.
Just wondering if anyone has any ideas what it could be. I don't think it's EMI from anything in the apartment, or in my building...
It is hard to tell what it is. I hear odd things also, sometimes. They do tend to come and go at different hours and different seasons, etc.
I do know that (at least with both of my scanners [PRO-92 and PRO-94]) that they respond to signals that are not the frequency it is supposed to be tuned to. Mine both pickup NOAA weather forcasts on some of the AAR frequencies depending on where I am at the time. It is most noticeable close to one of their transmitters (mile or two). I also hear signals that I have related to my neighbors car and a truck or two. I have a door bell that also causes the radio to momentarily break squelch on certain frequencies.
All radios have what are called "Birdies" (so called because when viewed using an oscilloscope they are little blips on the trace that look like birds sitting on a wire) that cannot be eliminated and it could be that your radio has some at just the wrong frequencies. Add in some radio interferance from a car or electric motor or some radio transmitter (HAM, CB, TAXI, Police, etc.) on some other frequency (but having spurious transmissions at just the wrong places) and your scanner will lock onto them.
Irritating, but not much can be done about them. Locking them out helps, but, around here some show up on frequencies I WANT to receive (U.P. Dispatcher on the Clinton Sub at 161.040, etc.). Periodically (once a week/month) I have to remove all the lock-outs and start over again.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Yeah, they probably didn't pay too much attention to designing scanners for EMI invulnerability... plus some security and public service systems are notorious for radiating spurious signals. You might have something similar in your neighborhood. One specific instance I can relate- we used to go visit our daughter up in Cedar Falls, IA in a house she rented with three other students. The route to her house took us past the Cedar Falls firehouse. We were usually listening to an AM talk station out of Cedar Rapids, a fairly strong station, but as we came within half a block of that firehouse the station would get totally wiped out by static.
Hey Charlie, I'm trying to recall, but can't, what modulation method the RR channels use. It's AM, isn't it?
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
HA! That reminds me of the Church Organ many years ago. The swell pedal (volume control) would slowly slip down and if the Organist forgot to turn the Organ off, sometime during the Sermon if a Police car would go past, you'd hear something like: "10-4, Unit 10, returning to the office, have the paper work ready for the warrant." I kept wishing one day the organ "message" would fit with something the Preacher was expounding upon.
I think AAR is FM.
NOAA is programmed into our handheld and base units,
For the PTRA, it is channel 16 on our hand held units.
Being at the tail end of tornado ally, and only a few miles off the gulf coast, we need to keep a ear out when the weather is acting up.
The frequencies assigned to each railroad sometime "double up" in that, our channel 3 turns out to 1 number off of a yard UP channel way out in San Antonio, and at night, if conditions are real clear and cold, we can hear them working, and sometimes hear them asking each other, "Do you hear that?" when we use the channel, so I know they hear us too.
We also get the EMS transmission from Beaumont, Texas almost every day...weak, but understandable.
And, for no apparent reason, sometimes, just when someone ends a transmission, the radios will flood with static till you press the transmit key again, and then it clears up.
Talking to our radio guy, he says that on occasion, a repeater station will pick up a stray weak signal, and re broadcast it, so that's why we get the UP in San Antonio, there is a repeater close enough to us to cross over onto our channel...he said that can often happen if the channels are "real close" to each other in frequencies.
There is a repeater tower on the BNSF main, about two miles from my house...if I bring my hand held home, I can sit here and listen to Fort Worth dispatch most of the system.
Sometimes the signal is weak, most of the time it sounds normal, and every so often, it will just about blow your ears out.
23 17 46 11
Well, I will keep trying to figure it out. I was sitting here thinking about a few things as I read the responses. I know, within about a 1/2 mile of my apartment, there is a bus company, and I noted earlier today, now that I think about it, a couple of houses with Ham antennaes in the back yard. There is also the DesPlaines River about a mile east of me, and that has plenty of barge traffic. Not only that, but the NWS Romeoville office, and their NOAA Weather Radio transmitter is about a mile or so away, and they brodcast on 162.425 (KZZ81) around here.
Could the NOAA transmitter be the source of the noise???
I have RS desktops and a hand held which is hooked to a 30" antennae. Each of the three scanners have little idiosycancies (sp).
One scanner will occasionally pickup NOAA weather and local police dispatches, but only to those dispatches within a couple blocks of my house, and not the entire community. Hmmm, must be some directional broadcasting by the police.
This time of year my reception on all three channels is poor. Normally I can pickup 10 miles out, now it is about 4 miles. Would weather conditions have anything to do with this?
I also get some static noise on one scanner, but only on the NS frequency.
Still, the scanners are worth having.
ed
TimChgo9 wrote: Well, I will keep trying to figure it out. I was sitting here thinking about a few things as I read the responses. I know, within about a 1/2 mile of my apartment, there is a bus company, and I noted earlier today, now that I think about it, a couple of houses with Ham antennaes in the back yard. There is also the DesPlaines River about a mile east of me, and that has plenty of barge traffic. Not only that, but the NWS Romeoville office, and their NOAA Weather Radio transmitter is about a mile or so away, and they brodcast on 162.425 (KZZ81) around here.Could the NOAA transmitter be the source of the noise???
Yes, NOAA could be part of the problem. Atmospheric conditions also can effect radio transmissions and reflections from the ionosphere can change things too.
"ANYTHING" that has electricity in it can produce radio waves at any frequency sometimes. Even things you don't think have electricity in them. Eaves troughs and downspouts can pick up radio signals and joints in the parts can act as detectors and then retransmit the signal at a different frequency or cause a signal to bounce off the metal, depending on the humidity at the time. RF is sometimes just plain "Magic", it can do really silly things. Your neighbors TV or computer or electric drill or vacuum cleaner can all make things go squirrely. I have only rabbit ears on my TV and sometimes I can get stations 100 miles away, and then my neighbor moves his car and I can't get the station anymore.
I often hear one particular yardman on the AAR channel just before (61) the one he is supposed to be on (62). I lock out that channel and then I get him on the correct channel. I assume one radio-pack at the yard is slightly off frequency and my scanner stop on that one. I have all 96 AAR frequencies programmed into my scanner in two banks and then other banks just the frequencies used by particular RRs in the area. I wasted my time reversing the order of the frequencies in the scanner and found another yard radio-pack that was slightly off frequency in the other direction! (Thankfully, I bought the cable to program it from my computer instead of having to do it all though the keypad!)
All in all, you are probably just stuck with the situation. You might try another scanner, but that is why I have two of them and they both exhibit the problem, even sometimes on the same frequencies! The Pro-92 I like better (better is a relative term!) for user operation, but the Pro-94 is faster in scanning. I am absolutely certain that the person (or committee) that designed them both have NEVER actually used a scanner, EVER!
If it only happens in the evening, you might be getting interference from microwave ovens (dinner anyone?). In fact, the buzzing kind of leads me in that direction. For that matter, you could be doing it to yourself!
Not to mention all the other stuff.
Do you have an outside antenna? One could be good or bad for you - depending on the source of your interference. If nothing else, the better reception of the frequencies you desire might let you set the squelch a little tighter and eliminate some problem.
Weather can have a profound effect on your reception - but I'm no expert in that area and can only relate my own experiences.
I often get cross talk on the local CSX channels - but only in certain areas (it's building telemetry - nice and clear, but who want to hear all those tones?).
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Tim, I'll bet someone in another apartment has a bad fluorescent fixture -- it may be right on the other side of your wall, but if it's really bad it will affect receivers within 200 feet or so. That would also explain why it interferes from sundown to 4 AM or so. Maybe it's a plant-gro bulb and the guy is growing ganja. Or maybe a fish-tank light on a timer. Or an older CRT computer monitor.
When you hear bleedover of NOAA channels on an otherwise decent-performing scanner, unless the transmitter is faulty (doubtful) you may be close enough to be picking up signals on a "harmonic". This phenomena happens on both AM and FM frequencies.
You will get bleedover anytime you are closely-proximate to a powerful transmitter, sometimes on two channels in each direction. When I'm at Rochelle RR park at night, the town's police radio bleeds into my AAR frequencies. I'd guess the antenna is located on top of the city water tower across the street to the east.
Tim, the next time you drive up Route 53 in Itasca near the two large radio transmitting antennas, tune to 1440 on your AM car radio. You'll hear WGN, which is 720 AM. The way the harmonic works is 720 x 2 = 1440 -- given enough signal strength. It also works in the same location on 1560 because WBBM 780's transmitter is there right next door (780 x 2 = 1560).
Here's good list of causes:
Causes of radio interference
Long distance troubleshooting of RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) can be tough!
Not to mention the fact that scanners are built to hear everything, they dont tend to have the same selectivity as dedicated radio receivers, who only want to hear specific things...
a couple of things you might be able to do....
A filter can help you eliminate unwanted signals, which may be out of band but strong enough to make a difference in your receiver. a "Notch" filter covering the AAR bands would be ideal.
You might contact a local Amatuer Radio Club, they often have folks who are willing to help find and eliminate spurious noise in the RF spectrum...
Is there a Hamfest near you anytime soon? sometimes the vendors there are knowledgeable and may have a few suggestions...
Make sure you have a good ground system for your antenna system. an "informal" arrangement of a mag mount on an air conditioner without a path to an actual earth ground will be pretty noisy. Suprisingly, there are great antennas out there you can build inexpensely which will provide both band-pass features (like a notch filter) and a good ground. My personal favorite for this type of antenna is called a J-pole antenna.
Here is a god link to a construction article for a J-pole in the 2-meter amature band, which is just below the AAR band. It also contains a calculator for getting it right on frequency...you can often find j-poles inexpensivly at local ham swap meets, also.
I also have radio trouble. for some reason when I ride amtrak, my scanner cuts off some of what the conductor says. for example when the conductor highballs a station, sometimes all I hear is the static after he says it. Hope Someone can help me!
Heartland Flyer 1001
hf1001 wrote: I also have radio trouble. for some reason when I ride amtrak, my scanner cuts off some of what the conductor says. for example when the conductor highballs a station, sometimes all I hear is the static after he says it. Hope Someone can help me! Heartland Flyer 1001
You might be hearing the engineer reply, complete with noise from the brake stand and engine.
I use a VHF-High portable radio on the railroad - sometimes we don't get everything, either.
Is your radio set to receive just one frequency or is it a scanner listening to many.
If it is a scanner, remember that it is not listening to ALL the frequencies at the same time. It is tuning to each frequency one at a time to see if there is a signal there. If there is no signal it listens to the next frequency. If there is a signal, then it stops scanning and turns on the speaker. If the conductor says, "Hi Ball." and your radio was listening to another frequency when he started to talk, and he finishes talking before the scanner gets around to the frequency he is using, then you may not hear any of it, or maybe just the last part of it if the scanner gets to that frequency before he releases the button.
If your radio is tuned to just one frequency, then it might be the conductor is starting to talk before he gets the button pushed on his microphone, or his radio is slow to get up to power when he does and thus even the engineer also hears only the last of it. But, since he knows what the conductor is probably going to say, he assumes the message. This can be a very dangerous thing depending on the situation; the engineer is expecting a call to proceed and the conductor wants to tell the engineer there is a delay, he'd better be sure that the engineer hears ALL the message, or the engineer may just take off before the conductor is ready.
Has anyone had any luck using a scanner INSIDE the amtrack coaches?
I would suspect that location of the Antenna of the scanner is the most important aspect...the metal car will act like a shield, blocking a lot of the transmissions. You could hold your scanner next to the window to improve reception....or, if the antenna is on a BNC type connector you can get a short extension cable, with a clip at the antenna end, which could hold hte antenna on the curtains or window frame...
scanner world antenna extension
similar item on E-bay
I have used my scanner on Amtrak many times. It usually works well, but in some cars it seems to get weak signals. You are right about the metal car; the signal has to come in through the windows, and maybe the doors when they are not shut tightly. I think some of the tinted glass windows are slightly conductive, so they interfere with radio signals.
The crew often changes radio frequency as the train moves across different subdivisions and different RRs. You can lose them if you don't hear them announce the change. One solution is to try to have your frequency plan worked out ahead of time. Then you'll be expecting the channel changes and be ready for them. I usually don't do that. If I think I'm missing something, I just change the scanner to scan all RR channels to find them again.
Poppa_Zit wrote: Tim, I'll bet someone in another apartment has a bad fluorescent fixture -- it may be right on the other side of your wall, but if it's really bad it will affect receivers within 200 feet or so. That would also explain why it interferes from sundown to 4 AM or so. Maybe it's a plant-gro bulb and the guy is growing ganja. Or maybe a fish-tank light on a timer. Or an older CRT computer monitor.When you hear bleedover of NOAA channels on an otherwise decent-performing scanner, unless the transmitter is faulty (doubtful) you may be close enough to be picking up signals on a "harmonic". This phenomena happens on both AM and FM frequencies.You will get bleedover anytime you are closely-proximate to a powerful transmitter, sometimes on two channels in each direction. When I'm at Rochelle RR park at night, the town's police radio bleeds into my AAR frequencies. I'd guess the antenna is located on top of the city water tower across the street to the east. Tim, the next time you drive up Route 53 in Itasca near the two large radio transmitting antennas, tune to 1440 on your AM car radio. You'll hear WGN, which is 720 AM. The way the harmonic works is 720 x 2 = 1440 -- given enough signal strength. It also works in the same location on 1560 because WBBM 780's transmitter is there right next door (780 x 2 = 1560). Here's good list of causes: Causes of radio interference
Poppa beat me to the punch, I was going to say the same thing about fluorescent lighting, and I will go further to say it is likely a defective ballast involved.
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