connecting metropolitan and penn-stations in n.y.

[martin.knoepfel]

I habe heard there are plans to connect metropolitan (nyc) and penn-stations in new york by an new tunnel.

does this mean the long-island-trains or the new-jersey-trains will run thru penn-station to metropolitan? (I suppose, the tunnel will be built in a way to eliminate back-up-moves.)

do the LIRR and metro-north have the same third-rail-systems?

[Anonymous]

Do you mean Penn Station and Grand Central? I heard and read this many times. One question keeps coming up, where do you get the money?

NYC is broke. They need to rebuild lower Manhatten. They have promised to rebuild Penn Station in the old post office. They have promised the Yanks, Mets and Jets new staduims for years. The roads are a nightmare.

Where is the money coming from??

[Modelcar]

....Do the Penn Station in the old Post Office, as the many plans call for...It was to be started just about the time of 9-11....Wonder if any of it has gotten under way yet. I have several computer pic's of the proposal and it looks like it might be something to be proud of again....

[Anonymous]

I thought the process of renovating a postal facility in NYC as the new Penn Station was a done deal--and the project long since started. No?[:(]

[daveklepper]

There is a proposal to extend the No 7 Flushing line, which parallels the shuttle from Grand Central to Times Sq., west to the Javetts Convention Center and then possibly south and back east to Penn Sta. Some actual work on this has started.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Speaking of proposals, how long has the Second Avenue subway been either proposed or under construction? I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any of this to be completed.

Proposals like this have cropped up in Chicago over the years, too. With the exception of the closing of Grand Central (C&O/B&O) in Chicago, passenger station consolidation was often proposed but never happened before Amtrak. Proposals have also been made to replace the Loop L with a subway, but the L is still standing.

[jchnhtfd]

I wouldn't hold my breathe on the Grand Central to Penn Station commuter rail link... as someone pointed out above, there's a little problem called 'money'. On the other hand, it is my understanding (ho ho -- I've been wrong before, too!) that the plan to send some LIRR trains into Grand Central, via a new tunnel (which HAS been built) under the East River (the tunnel was built in conjunction with the 63rd St. subway) is alive and well.

Everyone involved recognizes that something needs to be done, particularly with almost all NJTransit trains now having access directly to Penn -- even the most optimistic forecasts of the ability of Penn, as it is planned to be rebult in the Post Office (why, oh why was it ever torn down? Well, I know why -- money, again) show that the combined loads of the LIRR and NJ Transit will be overwhelming -- not just to the station, but to the subways. Moving some of that load to Grand Central would help. Hence the idea...

[Modelcar]

.....Yes, I'm sure the outstanding reason the original Penn Station was demolished was money....but isn't it a shame such a beautiful structure such as it was, was not updated and brought into the modern era for present day use and beauty.

[eolafan]

Folks, I grew up in the metro NYC area from the 1950's through the 1970's and had heard such rumors almost since the old Penn. Station was converted into Madison Square Garden (with Penn Station under it). As somebody has already said, "Don't hold your breath". Jim

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

.....Yes, I'm sure the outstanding reason the original Penn Station was demolished was money....but isn't it a shame such a beautiful structure such as it was, was not updated and brought into the modern era for present day use and beauty.

[:(]It is indeed a tragedy when you look at old photographs of the late, great Pennsylvania Station...that anyone would ever think of demolishing it. What a waste. Thank God for the preservationist movement in this country. I realize that not everything will escape the wrecker's ball, but hopefully many older, architecturally significant structures will be spared in the future.[:)]

[Modelcar]

....Yes and the destruction of that edifice is one of the turning points that got the ball rolling faster with the preservationist movement...and one noted lady none other than Mrs. John F. Kennedy...had a big hand in it.
I experienced being in that station during WWII and the memory still is vivid these many years hence.....It was awesome..!

[Modelcar]

....Superchieffan...If you would like to have a hard cover book [photos too], on the Penn Station of NYC take a look for "The Late, Great Pennsylvania Station"....by Lorraine B. Diehl. I recomend it. It Covers the conception, construction, It's usage and sadly, It's distruction which began in Oct. 1963.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....Superchieffan...If you would like to have a hard cover book [photos too], on the Penn Station of NYC take a look for "The Late, Great Pennsylvania Station"....by Lorraine B. Diehl. I recomend it. It Covers the conception, construction, It's usage and sadly, It's distruction which began in Oct. 1963.

I've seen the book you speak of Modelcar. It's on my list of books to buy. The sole reason I haven't purchased it yet is because the last time I went on a book buying binge, I got home and began reading one of the books, while the rest got shuffled into a box (I was moving at the time) and only recently have I gotten around to looking at some of the others! Still, I will get a copy (hopefully before it's out of print). I wish I had been around at that time to witness this irreplaceable structure up close and personal. As it stands, I was only four months old when it was demolished.[:(]

[Modelcar]

.....Your points well taken. If you have an interest as you seem to, keep that book in mind as it really does have the story to tell.

[daveklepper]

Regarding Metro North (old NYC) and LIRR third rails: Metro North uses under-running, the rail is suspended from above, with protection board above, while the LIRR and the subway system are the same, supported from below with a gap with plenty of clearance and then the protection board above. The old elevated third rail was unprotected and closer and higher than the subway and LIRR third rail. The New Haven AC-DC electrics had cam-operated third rail shoes for compatibility with both the LIRR into Penn Station and the NYC into Grand Central . Pat McGinnis's FL-9's arrived only with NYC type shoes, but on a test run into Penn Station, it was found that the carefully designed simple shoes worked well on the opposite face picking up from the LIRR third rail as well, and occasionally the FL-9's did handle trains into Penn Station on 600V DC. So it can be done. It requires excellent maintanance of both shoes and third rail, particularly the ramps at third-rail breaks. Subway equipment has routinely been tested for speed on LIRR tracks .

[martin.knoepfel]

thanks for the many answers, especially daveklepper.