Efficiency of Movement

[Anonymous]

I thought of this question while doing some switching on my model RR the
other day and I'm curious to know how things work in the industry.

After making a pickup and setting-out two box-cars on my local, I realized I
could've saved myself a reverse move if I had just pulled straight-through a
siding. I could've made the pickup/set-out more efficiently. I complained
about myself to the dispatcher (my cat) and he let me off the hook.

In the "real world" of railroading, is a train crew "graded" or somehow evaluated
on how efficiently they make their switch moves out on the line in terms of
minimizing movement? Does a crew's use of "queuing theory" (can you tell
I am a software engineer?) to make each pickup and/or set-out with the
least number of moves factor-into how they are evaluated for job
performance?

[tree68]

I'm in the same boat - I'm a model railroader, not a "real" railroader. Nonetheless, I read something about this in one RR mag or another a while back. I don't recall many specifics, but a real railroader was commenting about how inefficient modellers tend to be - on the real thing, they'll pull a whole string of cars if it saves a move or two. Modellers revel in lots of action.

As for the grade, I'd have to say that it comes back to them in the form of how long they have to work to get the job done. I'm sure a local crew would catch "what-for" if they died on the law on a regular basis. Especially if other crews were able to accompli***he same thing with time to spare.

Let's see what the working railroaders have to say! [:)]

[Anonymous]

Yep - but us model railroad guys have something else to think about: buckling!
Shoving a cut of 15 cars on a model railroad isn't the same as on a real railroad
because there's a lot more of a chance we'll get a jump on one of the cars near the
engine. I've reduced that problem considerably by being a lot more hard-nosed
about inspecting my rolling stock and changing-out wheels and/or trucks to
eliminate resistance and imbalance (there's a great article in MR about eliminating
derailments).

Definitely - let's hear the real railroaders comment...

[TH&B]

Mobel trains (toy trains if I may) have a different "laws of phisics" then real trains. On models you always have a birds eye view, in real usualy a worms eye view. In real you also need a man at the switch stand to throw it, in model you can throw any swicth you want any time.
But I heard that all railways of the world (US England Germany Russia India etc...ALL countries ) has historicaly been plagued by BAD SWITCHMEN!! In the past railroads hired alot of guys, often too many to be able to be too picky on hiring. Back then the best switchmen became realy good, probably better then todays men, but the worst were realy bad, maybe also worse then todays men. It doesn't mean that most guys were bad it just means there was always some (still too many) that were bad. This inconsistency in the "quality control" of switchmen has been a problem and is one reason many railways of the world are working thier way away from switching procedures as they "modernise". A bad switch crew (or inexperienced crew) damages goods and takes too long and is unreliable.
Today in the US the rules kind of strangle the good possiblities of getting realy good at it.
But that said a realy good switch crew can sort cars quick and effeciently damage free and injury free and can realy show the advantage of loose car railroading. Its a skill but perhaps it's not a well respected skill.
Thats what I heard and thought about.

[zardoz]

A good switchman needs the ability to think ahead ten moves, while at the same time thinking about what is currently going on, the location he is at, unique concerns regarding a particular location or type of car, in addition to knowing what his helper (if any) and the engineer (again, if any) are doing. He must be able to look at a yard list and formulate a 'plan of attack', and to be able to see the yard as a puzzle that needs to be worked out.

I was a lousy switchman, due to my inability to do what I wrote above. That's why I went into engine service; I could think ten MILES ahead, but not ten MOVES ahead.

If I had to guess, I'd bet Ed is a good switchman. And I'd bet he could tell you a few dozen things he has to keep track of while working.

[edblysard]

Hi ghighland,
Well, tell the cat he let you off easy!

Now, a lot would depend on where your working, but in dark territory, sure, why not drag into the sideing if it saves moves and time.

My railroad, the PTRA, works under RTC, radio traffic control, dark territory.

Which in english means we all talk to each other via radio out on the road, so we all know where the other crews are, and who is doing what.

This does allow for some really strange looking moves, but most of what we do is based on a lot of tradition.

For the most part, we do it a certain way, not just because thats the way we always have done it, but because it works.

Here is a example of what, to a non railroader, would look and sound wrong, but we do it daily.

Crew A is headed north with a 40 car train, which has cars on the rear for crew B.
Crew B in in a sideing, light engine.

Single track main.

Crew B has pulled Shell refinery, (which is north of the sideing)and their pulls are on the main, a mile north of the sideing.

Crew A drags past the sideing.

When the rear of crew A's train passes the south end of the sideing, crew b flags crew A in the clear, and we stop.

Crew B comes out of the sideing, backs up and couples into our train.
We let off the brakes, and crew B drags us backwards, locomotive and all, back past the south end of the sideing.

We let them know when to stop..

Crew B's switchman then cuts the rear cars off, closes our rear angle ****, and lets us know he has done so.

We drag into the sideing.

When we are in the clear, crew B can now shove their cars north, towards the faceing point shove into Shell, and spot the cars we brought them.

They get done in Shell, come out and back up to their pulls they left on the main, north of the sideing, which happens to be in our way.
They can then head south, past us, and go about the rest of their work.

We can now drag out of the sideing, ( its a double ended sideing) and head north, with no one in front of us in our way, and go about our work.

Now, you could come up with 5 or 6 ways to get the rear cars to crew B, but all would involve a lot more moves and time spent for both crews.

This way, we get rid of their cars, they get done and out of our way, we dont have to figure out where to sta***he cars, they dont have to come up with a way to run around the cars to shove them to Shell, or go back to the yard and pick up the cars, and make another trip out to Shell.
Crew B can have Shell pulled before we even leave the yard, and be half way finished before we even get there, so both crews benifit doing it this way.

Everybody wins..

Its a example of how weird it can seem, but it works great.

No 440, it isnt that the switchmen are lousy at what they do, its that they are not trained very well.

Spent a hour today leading a BNSF crew around our yard, because the conductor, who had a whole 2 weeks training, had been sent, on his very first pay trip, to a strange yard on a different railroad, to pull a transfer train back to BNSF's south yard.

Not only was this his first pay trip, it was his first time out alone, on 2 weeks of book and rule training, but not a minute of hands on work.

No request for a pilot, they just sent him, and a engineer who also had never been to the PTRA before.
When I came railroading, I spent 9 months assigned to different jobs to learn the ropes, before I was allowed my foreman rights.
I didnt get to mark up to work as a helper until I had been there a month, and had a mentor watching me the whole time, teaching me what to do, and not to do.

BNSF trained this guy for a week on rules, and a week practicing in a yard, and turned him lose on a road job alone.

Ghighland, we do get graded, not so much by management, but by the other crews.

When I am yard switching, nothing chaps me more than starting off the day cleaning up the mess left by the night crew.
When I spent a hour getting yard tracks together, and shoveing them in the clear, hunting down strangers, and re switching a track that was done wrong, it really wastes a lot of time, so I let the night crew know how POed I am at taking care of their work.

And tree68 was right...

Yes, management does notice when the morning crew switches 250 cars, the afternoon crew switches 200, and the night crew cant manage 100.
I can guarantee you which two crews get good quits, and which crew is held up and not let off till the very last minute.!

Zardoz was right, we do have to think several moves ahead in yard work.

I will footboard five cover cars all day long, if it saves having to dig them out or a yard track at the end of my shift, when we block out the trains.

When you have worked with the same crew for a while, you all develope the same rhythm and style, and you learn to trust each other completly.

If either of my helpers or my engineer tells me we need to handle something first, before we go after another track, or go do what I had planned, I never question them, they are professionals, and know exactly what they are doing.

If one of them says we have to do this first, we do.

Or if one of them thinks what we are about to do isnt safe, they we dont do it, period.

If one of my guys says" kick that car here, we can pick it up in a while" than I let her rip, even if its going to a track it isnt assigned to, because that guy has a plan to save us more moves later on, or save us time right now, and he knows what hes doing.

And we are almost always on the same page so to speak, we have worked together so long.

Most of us still take pride in what we do, flat yard switching is a dissappearing skill, but done correctly, by guys who like what they are doing, and take pride in it, we can out switch most hump yards any day of the week.

If you have a question about how to handle a paticular car, or move, I'll give her a whirl!
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

With roughly nine months experience, I still find myself costing a move here and there. Planning is second in line after safety in my book as far as switching goes. We have never been graded based on operations, but I think I do well for my short time frame. I still have much to learn. Everyday is something new, I think that's one of the main reaons I like my job. If you and your engineer can work as a team things go so much smoother.