Unsafe Bridges?

[JoeKoh]

Article in tonights paper said that 24 percent of ohios rr bridges are rated deficient and their average age is 69 years. a csx spokesperson was quoted as saying"even if the railroads were responsible for some of the bridges in question times have changed" Am i missing something here?[:0]
stay safe
Joe

[Modelcar]

....I wonder how high the percentage would be if the same inspection would be conducted on our interstate highway system....I'll wager they are in worse shape. Doubt if they were built for a duty cycle as long as the railroad bridges in the first place.

[jchnhtfd]

The question is -- are they talking about bridges over railways (which are the responsibility of the State or Town) or railways over something else (like a road) which are usually the railroad's headache. I'd bet that the article was talking about bridges over railways. And Modelcar's suspicions are quite right -- the Interstate highway system bridges are in pretty tough shape.

[michaelstevens]

[8D]Take it from an old (public works) Engineer;
(i) 69 is not old for a bridge -- check out the "Brooklyn" and the "Golden Gate" bridges.
(ii) the CSX spokesperson's quote is just the "mealy mouthed BS" he's paid to produce.
(iii) the CSX spokesperson may even have a point however, inasmuch as the Feds (90%) and the States (10%) paid for all of those interstate vs. RR bridges !!
(iii) bottom line is that the State AGC (Assoc. Gen. Contractors) puts out the same scare notice every year -- during the "slow season".
[:)]
Happy Xmas Mr., Mrs. or Ms. "CSX Spokesperson"
[:D][:D]

Maybe that's why they invented the "BoxPox" -- to get away from the otherwise inevitable "spokes" !!

[:D][:D]

[RudyRockvilleMD]

I agree 69 years may not be old for many of the older bridges because they were most likely designed with higher factors of safety, or they may not carry as much traffic although the Kinzua Viaduct might be an exception to the first factor. However, the Woodrow Wilson Bridge which carries I 95/495 across the Potomac River south of Washington, DC is worn out, and it needs to be replaced; that bridge is only a little over 40 years old, and it most likely wore out quickly because over the years it has carried more traffic than it was designed to carry.

[mvlandsw]

The NS (ex CR, PC, PRR) bridge over CSX at Ravenna, Oh. has holes rusted through the outer girder.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Most older (pre-WWII) railroad and highway bridges are holding up better because they tend to be overbuilt for the load they were designed to carry.
Postwar highway bridges and viaducts, especially those built in conjunction with the Interstate Highway system, were built with a designed life expectancy of 40 years. This allowed them to be built lighter and less expensive. Unfortunately, since most of these bridges were built at about the same time, they tend to be in need of replacement at about the same time.

[JoeKoh]

well the article was condensed and I know for a fact that the bridge here in Defiance for the maumee and western(old wabash line) is one of the lowest rated bridges in the state.when I get more info I'll post it.
thanks
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

In Delaware, CSX lost a lawsuit and The State of Delaware is making CSX rebuild 4 bridges that cross over their tracks. Attached is the link to teh story.

http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/local/2003/12/16csxloseslawsuit.html

[AltonFan]

During the time the UP was preparing for Challenger excursions in the Chicago area, it was discovered that modern, high-horsepower diesels in multiple exceeded the tonnage ratings of local bridges.

[mudchicken]

Joe:

If we are talking 386K loading for 125 ton rail cars, there is a problem especially for shortlines (bigger cars with bridges that have not been beefed-up to handle the extra impact loading)..... 69 years old for a steel or cast iron bridge is not that old. Out here, we have timber pile bridges under main tracks built 1905-1920 that are still in service with very little maintenance (thanks to dry climate). Most railroad bridges were overdesigned when they were built (structural engineering science has advanced greatly in the last 50-60 years) and they were E50-E60 Cooper rated structures built to handle cars of 80 tons or less.....That has all changed now in the name of efficiency and/or reduced tare weight. Everything new is now E-80 loading (125+ Ton cars) or better. Rust on a bridge is not always a problem, especially if the steel member shares little of the load. The big railroads inspect their steel bridges religiously and all bridges at least once a year under 49CFR214 which requires inspection but does not detail the inspection interval. The Maumee River bridge was deficient for many years before N&W got it in 1964. (It has not sufficient clearance and has had an E-50 rating since the 1940's as listed in Heimbergers book and other stuff I've seen over the years. The other post that Limited Clear uses to keep tabs on the shortline infrastructure bill is supposed to help this type of bridge. (The shame of it is that the bill will pass, but congess will not fund it. Electing instead to waste more money on relatively unused bicycle paths and touchy-feely landscaping).....

Mudchicken

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken
(The shame of it is that the bill will pass, but congess will not fund it. Electing instead to waste more money on relatively unused bicycle paths and touchy-feely landscaping).....

Mudchicken

That's becasue once railroads are run out of communities by noise/pollution and other NIMBY restrctions......those double stack bicycles are going to need good paths to get the freight through.

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken
(The shame of it is that the bill will pass, but congess will not fund it. Electing instead to waste more money on relatively unused bicycle paths and touchy-feely landscaping).....

Mudchicken

That's becasue once railroads are run out of communities by noise/pollution and other NIMBY restrctions......those double stack bicycles are going to need good paths to get the freight through.

Hope they don't mind starving while they freeze in the dark while ducking pill popping truckers!

[mudchicken]

The Delaware case sited above assumes (that word again!) that a CSX predecessor built the four bridges in question and assumed maintenance and operation as well. While railroads did on occasion build over/under-passes for vehicles or pedestrians, the concept tends to be the exception instead of the rule. Somebody at CSX is out to kill the pencilgeeks with a BA degree that ordered all the old files and contracts to be destroyed when dumbsizing started in the 1980's. The expense of storing old records of intrinsic worth has caused a lack of institutional memory to be a rather expensive miscalculation. Possession of the files and contracts may change the outcomes here and the court is looking for a better answer than hearsay. Somebody find the records!

If CSX rebuilds the bridges, CSX has the right to demand a binding contract from the state and city prior to use that may be tough to swallow. When the government(s) step in and claim a prescriptive right, they just bought 4 new bridges....Almost as dumb as what Ohio DOT is doing at Findlay, OH because they are too cheep to build an interstate highway bridge (See STB website, FD-34415 in the filings section, "Michigan Sugars" case)

[JoeKoh]

Mudchicken
As before thanks for the info. the state says that only 10 percent of their bridges are deficient.But they get federal grants. But what is the city state etc going to do with these pill popping truckers who keep trying to go under the clinton st viaduct?
stay safe
Joe

[mudchicken]

Low Rider the Semi's! - Eh Chuy?

[JoeKoh]

I'll ask my friend at work how many trucks have hit that viaduct this year.Her husband is a cop.
stay safe
joe