General Discussion (Model Railroader)

n2mopac wrote:

jfugate wrote: Now that I'm finally done bailing water out of my basement, I hope to post the next installment of this clinic in the next day or so. Bailing water? Did I miss something? Ron

No kidding, you missed something. See my web site ...

jfugate wrote:

Now that I'm finally done bailing water out of my basement, I hope to post the next installment of this clinic in the next day or so.

Are you going to post your water bill - after the city was nice enough to help you clean your layout and driveway?

Hopefully everything is getting back to normal.

Giving a "work between" to a following train if they are really both going in the same direction is very dependent on the railroad and their individual rules.  Some railroads frown on this type of operation (especially if its for any distance).

Also some railroads give every train regardless of where they operate a "track warrant", but in CTC they would get a "track warrant for bulletins" which is similar to a clearance in TT&TO days, it doesn't convey any authority, just lists the bulletins the train gets (bulletins being informational messages such a slow orders, gangs working and other information affectin ght eoperation of the trains.

Dave H.

jfugate wrote:

n2mopac wrote:  jfugate wrote: Now that I'm finally done bailing water out of my basement, I hope to post the next installment of this clinic in the next day or so. Bailing water? Did I miss something? Ron No kidding, you missed something. See my web site ...

Oh man! That really stinks! Sounds like recovery is progressing well though. I hope the city covers all of  your repair as they should. If not, I hope you have flood insurance.

Ron

NEW CLINIC POST!

TOPIC THIS POST: Helper Operations

Read this forum clinic post by clicking here.

Finally, another installment in the series, now that we no longer are trying to make model railroading a water sport.

Keep 'em coming Joe!

Glad to hear that the water works issue has been resolved, two weeks between updates on this thread was way to long!

As usual, and once again you keep me motivated and intrigued with the finer details of model railroad operations.

Thanks and cheers,

Ryan

 

Joe,IMHO you should rethink your locomotives tractive force..A SD unit would be able to pull more then a GP unit due to the tractive efforts between a 6 axle unit and a 4 axle unit plus a GP40 will have more tracrive efort then a GP9.Also,again IMO your trains should be long enough (say 15-20 cars) so when this train is yarded the yard switcher can make 2 cuts instead of pulling the whole train..After all it took 2-3 road units pull this train across the division..

I'm on!  Lets go!

BRAKIE wrote:

Joe,IMHO you should rethink your locomotives tractive force..A SD unit would be able to pull more then a GP unit due to the tractive efforts between a 6 axle unit and a 4 axle unit plus a GP40 will have more tracrive efort then a GP9.Also,again IMO your trains should be long enough (say 15-20 cars) so when this train is yarded the yard switcher can make 2 cuts instead of pulling the whole train..After all it took 2-3 road units pull this train across the division..

Larry:

I understand your point, but model loco tractive effort often has little to do with prototype loco tractive effort. My main goal was to have something very simple that emphasized the difference between second generation and first generation units, yet kept the trains lengths within the bounds of the layout design. By my way of thinking, something simple is way better than nothing at all. And you if you try to simulate every little nuance of the prototype, the session starts to feel more like work than play.

I really don't want a tractive effort chart that uses fractional cars, so what do you suggest?

Keep in mind that my maximum train length should be about 25 fifty-foot cars (not including motive power), and I'd like anything over about 20 cars to need helpers.

Joe,Heres the method the club uses..1-12 cars rates a 4 or 6 axle unit.13-20 cars rates 2 4 axle unit.

Now the fun begins..

20-35 cars 3 4 axle units or 2 6 axle units.

36-50  cars 4 4 axle units or 3 6 axle units.

This method works quite well..The yardmaster tells the "Superintendent of motive power"(aka the hostler) the number of cars in a train and the hostler then assigns the needed locomotives simply by looking at a index card attached to the hostlers panel .

Our steepest grade is "Scary Hill" a 1.75% grade.

Simple no?

 

You can adjust for your givens and a 21 car train will need helpers.

 

 

Larry:

Thanks for your response.

I just remember trains on the Siskiyou Line with a bunch of SD9s on the front because their tractive effort is so much less than second generation units, and my method simulates that memory nicely. Somehow, seeing a train with the same number of SD45s on the front as SD9s just doesn't do it for me.

The GP vs SD difference would not give me near the heartburn that first generation versus second generation does. So my method works for me and yours works for you. Neither method simulates reality properly if you want to get technical.

It all comes down to what matters to you in your modeling. It's all a simulation and our plastic diesels don't use real diesel and our plastic steamers don't run on real steam, and that's just the beginning of how our models aren't like the real McCoy.

If we're having fun, that's the main thing!

Larry:

The other thing I notice with your club's method is it assumes all the locos in the lashup are 4 or 6 axle units, which may not be realistic. On the Siskiyou Line, all loco consists are made up before the session starts. Seems like your club's method could be a problem with premade lashups like I use ... what if you have a lashup that's an SD40, SD45, and a GP40? How many cars can that lashup pull with your club's method? That's not clear.

Bottom line is your club's method also ignores certain realities, just like mine does. We all pick our poison, as the saying goes.

Another approach to pulling power is to use the "Scale Power" method John Page described in an "At The Throttle" editorial W-A-Y back in the late 1950's - "Scale Powering" the locos themselves.

Combining "Scale Powering" with Joe's approach, all SD9's and GP9's would have enough weight careved out of their frames that each loco could only pull six cars on a grade without slipping, while the second-generation stuff would have enough of their frames removed to pull only seven cars on the grade without slipping.

Brakie's club could do the same thing based on number of axles.

You'd also need to "Scale Power" the yard switchers, so that they would pull perhaps only four or five cars on level track. That way, when the second-generation lash-up brought in a 21-car freight, that single little switcher would have no chance in hades of moving even a sizeable portion of the train. It would have to break it into pieces to sort it - prototypical, no?

All you need to do to get started is to overcome your revulsion at the idea of carving out a lot of weight in your locomotives!

Hey everyone. I've been gone a while and I just wondered if this clinic died. Joe, is there still more to come, or have we all moved on now? Just wondering. I've appreciated greatly this and all of the clinics Joe has led here. Let us know what's happening.

Ron