Electronics and DCC

How about we take the chart as published in MR and fix the errors?

--Randy

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate Jeff: I'm game. What features would you list?

Joe,

I think a lot of people don't even realize all the things that can be done with most of the systems, so I think a comprehensive list is in order. My biggest concern is the jargon everyone is using right now. When manufactures say "my system supports consisting", you and I both know that could mean a number of things, and I think a better explanation of what actually does support would help a great deal.

What systems are you most knowledgable with? Having only had the MRC PA for a couple of months hardly constitutes me as an authority, but I have had Digitrax systems for more than a few years now. I've also got experience with Lenz and the CVP Airwire system, although I'm not sure the Airwire system applies here. My only other claim to fame is a background with the MTH DCS system. Again, I'm not really sure this one should be included either.

The only problem I have is time, and the limited amount I can devote to this. Maybe we could colaborate via email and put the list together off the forum and then just post the results?

Let me know what you want to tackle, and what systems you feel more comfortable with. Also if you know a fellow forumite that might have experience with a system we don't, see if you can enlist their help as well.

Jeff

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker How about we take the chart as published in MR and fix the errors? --Randy

Randy,

While this is a place to start, I think we need to include some of the more advanced stuff for people looking at all the different variables. That list from MR is only a small snippet of a features list in my mind.

Jeff

don't know the best but i like bachmanns.

I've owned Lenz and EasyDCC. I've also used NCE quite a bit, and read their manuals extensively.

I'd like to see some postings of what evaluation criteria people would like to see that weren't in the MR review.

That would give me an idea of how to start making the list. I agree that the details ought to be worked out offline via email, then the "draft" posted here for comment and review.

I also am very busy, just having signed a contract for a whole bunch of new video work, not to mention I'm deep into the production of my how-to series volume 4 on Scenery.

Joe,

I can't believe I haven't checked out your website before now. There's a ton of great stuff there! I will contact you via your railfan.net email address if that's ok with you. I will be out of town the next couple of days on business, but I'll contact you when I return.

I look forward to this little project!

Jeff

Going to Springfield show on 28th...sole purpose is to purchase new DCC systems fof my layout...Hope to spend time with mfg's at the show and make finale decision...any last minute thoughts from anyone?

One of the mosy important factors for me is if a non RR visitor asks to run trains can I give them a throttle and some simple dirrections and off they go. More focus on the layout rather than the controls.

TomyT: If I was going to get face to face with the MFGERs, I think I would try to get some hands on with the throttles, and ask questions on ease of programing from an intuitive stand point . I think the other areas to address would be computer interfaceing for programing ( althought I read recently a comment that the amount of programming is really not that much of a time consuming process if you are actually running trains) decoders, and to create a library of locomotive programming.
I think the consisting examples here are a good measure of the ease of use of the different systems, if they have a "running demo" putting a consist together would give you a good idea of ease of use.
Have fun at Springfield, and do some good reaearch. Let us know your impressions.
Will

QUOTE: Originally posted by jnichols Joe, I can't believe I haven't checked out your website before now. There's a ton of great stuff there! I will contact you via your railfan.net email address if that's ok with you. I will be out of town the next couple of days on business, but I'll contact you when I return. I look forward to this little project! Jeff

Jeff:

Glad you found my website helpful. Ideally, if you have some questions you would like me to answer, go join my forum and post your questions there. Then everyone who visits my website will benefit. [swg]

See:
http://model-trains-video.com/forum/index.php

Slightly off topic - I own an old " Onboard" system - 5 amp power supply - 2 tethered control pads - 4 loco thottles - all in excellent shape.
My 3 yrs. experience with the onboard system (in the 90's) was favorable except for the installation of the thottles in each loco - too much hacking and cutting.
Q.1 Is any of this onboard system salvageable to DCC?
Q.2 Can I get wiring specs for new "dcc - ready" locos so that I can wire the onboard thottles into these new locos? (Using existing circuit boards) I run N - HO and G locos.

QUOTE: Originally posted by gogetherus Q.1 Is any of this onboard system salvageable to DCC? Q.2 Can I get wiring specs for new "dcc - ready" locos so that I can wire the onboard thottles into these new locos? (Using existing circuit boards) I run N - HO and G locos.

Q1: No you can't use Onboard anything with DCC. Totally different technology.

Q2: DCC ready locos simply use a standard plug and socket arrangement to make installing and removing decoders quick and easy. If you are into soldering your own plugs, yes you could wire an Onboard receiver to a DCC plug and then have plug and play Onboard.

DCC ready locos typically have a little extra room around the loco weight for a decoder, but your Onboard receivers are far larger than most decoders, so you will still be cutting and fitting I'm afraid.

Since you can get an NCE Powercab for $139 from Tony's Trains and your basic decoder is now down to $15 in quantity, I'm not sure why you would want to keep going with 10+ year old technology at this point. One of these days your Onboard system's going to give up the ghost, and then you'll *have* to switch if you still want command control with sound.

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate I'd like to see some postings of what evaluation criteria people would like to see that weren't in the MR review. That would give me an idea of how to start making the list. I agree that the details ought to be worked out offline via email, then the "draft" posted here for comment and review.

Joe/Jeff:

In addition to what is on the System Comparison Table on Tony's Trains website, info I would find valuable:

1. List all systems available with pricing.

2. What will be needed to get to 5 amps capacity. I personally don't feel 2A is enough for anyone but a 4x8-er (Not that there's anything wrong with that!) and 10A appears to be for the large pike, as opposed to a medium (12 x 15) layout. IF THIS ASSUMPTION IS WRONG, please feel free to correct. I realize this can vary with double-heading, stationary decoders, etc.

3. Difference in decoder models / capabilities.

4. What decoders are available as "drop ins / plug ins" and for which models.

5. How much reading of the manual is needed to accomplish a task. Such as: Consisting; Advanced Consisting; Adding an engine; Deleting an engine; etc.

6. Support stationary decoders? If so, how may items can be added to a decoder and/or function.

7. Type of throttle control. (Slide, pushbutton, wheel, rotary knob).

8. Updating ease and how. (Software by owner; Software by Manuf; Chip by owner, etc)

9. Support sound?

10. How easy to expand. Amps; Throttles;

11. When would a booster be needed?

12. How long of a wire run is recommended for the various buses?

I appreciate the effort you have put into this topic and the fact that you guys are willing to tackle this. Thank you!

Len

Len

While I see the need for the type of info you are asking for if someone was able to gather all of the info together and put into a book it would make WAR & PEACE seem like a 4 page club newsletter.

The DCC manufacturers are making changes daily and any info you would gather would be so out of date by the time you had it published it would not be relevant.

Now putting this on an internet site would also be just about the same way. The info still has to be written out and put on the site, so going back and editing it on a daily basis to keep it current would be a business in itself.

The best advice I can give you is to try and find local modelers that have systems up and running in your area. This way you can go over there and get some hands-on experience! This is the real teacher. Talk is mostly opinion and hype. But when you are actually operating a layout the BS stops right there!

This is what I do with my home layout. If someone is interested in seeing and operating a DCC layout first hand I invite them to come over and see one in action. Now I usually ask them to show up on a Thursday night OPs session. They can see the layout in operation with many operators and if we have problems that can also see that first hand.

Running a layout with only one or two people will not usually show system problems. It is only when you get a number of different experienced operators together; that you can then find out what happens when the operator begins pushing buttons the wrong way. How long it takes the owner to get things back up and running. The owner can also show you the easy way of acquiring an engine, making up of consists (MUing) and programming.

They have learned short cuts to doing all sorts of things on the layout and reading a book or a BLOG will really never be able to show you.

Just one persons opinion!

BOB H – Clarion, PA

There are 10 or more DCC manufacturers, each offering more than one model, so I would guess there are about 25-30 different command stations on the market. Add in all the extra goodies like throttle options and Bob is right this turns into a huge task.

It is even greater when it comes to decoders. These are being introduced all the time and new locomotives are coming out all the time, so an up to date database of decoder comparison and installation examples would be a large undertaking for anyone. I think that the decoder makers would do themselves a huge favor if more of them kept instalation examples up to date on their own web sites.