Electronics and DCC

The place to discuss wiring for DC and DCC controlled model train layouts. If you're new here, please read our forum policies.

Last post 05-15-2008 8:36 AM by BlueHillsCPR. 438 replies.
Rate:
Sort Posts:
Page 10 of 30 (439 items) « First ... < Previous 8 9 10 11 12 Next > ... Last »
05-26-2005 9:42 AM In reply to
Offline n2mopac
Top 500 Contributor
Joined on 02-19-2001
Sedalia, MO
Posts 1,388

Angry [:(!] RE: RE: RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Randy, or Joe ( or an electrical engineer who is reading), I understand Randy's response, and it makes sense. Just for my edification, is there an exponential relationship involved? I ask this because the light bulb will be drawing current all the while if it is ever going to draw current. So, is the draw inversely proportional to ....what, resistance? Help me to appreciate what the bulb is doing when it is not protecting the booster and locos during normal running.


Acting like a resistor, a low value one. There are devices called Negative Temperature Coefficient Resistors (NTC) that would work the same as the light bulbs, if the proper values can be found. But they cost more than 1156 bulbs.

--Randy


So, one last clarification, assuming I am not going to put 100 bulbs on my 300 feet of trackwork, is there a point when all of these "resistors" beging to cause a power drain on the system or overload it by their sheer numbers?

Ron
05-26-2005 10:41 AM In reply to
Offline jfugate
Top 100 Contributor
Joined on 01-05-2002
Portland, OR
Posts 3,140

RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

Ron:

The short answer is: you will not overload your system by adding a dozen or more bulbs in series with your power feeds. It's the locos in the circuit that create the load, not the bulbs.

Now the long answer.

If you design the power feed side of your DCC layout properly, you will typically break things up into two or more power districts, each with their own booster feeding the power. The only exception to this might be the smallest of layouts, like anything under about 50 square feet (the common 4 x 8 is 32 square feet).

By having multiple boosters feeding things, you automatically divide up the bulbs across the layout -- each booster and power district can be thought of as its own isolated system for the most part. The only thing connecting the booster districts together is their common link back to your system's command station. But electrically speaking, each district is its own isolated circuit.

And the bulbs don't do anything until there is current flowing to locos on the track, and while the bulbs are cold, their effect is imperceptible to occupied track. So the real question is how many locos can you load into a single power district? You'll hit the current limit of your booster first from locos on the track -- that's the real concern.

If you wire your layout with train length blocks and one bulb per block, you can have a layout that fills an aircraft hanger and has thousands of train blocks, and you don't need to worry about the bulbs. With a layout that size, you will also have hundreds of power districts -- each with their own booster. And each power district electrically is its own isolated circuit. It's the number of locos typically on the track in a power district that will be your limit, not using 1156 bulbs to do short management.
05-26-2005 11:03 AM In reply to
Offline mark_in_utah
Not Ranked
Joined on 03-21-2005
Posts 408

Angry [:(!] RE: RE: RE: RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC


So, one last clarification, assuming I am not going to put 100 bulbs on my 300 feet of trackwork, is there a point when all of these "resistors" beging to cause a power drain on the system or overload it by their sheer numbers?

Ron


Ron,

If the lights are wired in series as Joe instructs, then they will add no load to the system as the current flow will be controlled by the locomotives and any other accessories that are powered from the track.

Mark in Utah
05-26-2005 11:36 AM In reply to
Online rrinker
Top 25 Contributor
Joined on 02-14-2002
Reading, PA
Posts 7,590

Angry [:(!] RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

Exactly. When there is no train in the block, the lights do nothing. The unoccupied track is an open circuit.
05-26-2005 12:00 PM In reply to
Offline jfugate
Top 100 Contributor
Joined on 01-05-2002
Portland, OR
Posts 3,140

Angry [:(!] RE: RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Exactly. When there is no train in the block, the lights do nothing. The unoccupied track is an open circuit.


Bingo!

It's the locos that draw the current. The bulbs really are not a consideration until you get a short or put enough locos on the track that you approach 2 amps. THEN, and only then, do the bulbs enter the circuit as a noticeable load -- and they limit the current to just over 2 amps, and *they become* the load.

It's this current limiting feature of the bulbs that makes them do their magic. For $1 each, it's hard to beat their value for adding load controlling short management to a DCC layout.
06-01-2005 11:52 PM In reply to
Offline jfugate
Top 100 Contributor
Joined on 01-05-2002
Portland, OR
Posts 3,140

RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

TOPIC THIS POST: Programming loco decoders

DCC allows you to independently configure a locomotive decoder with custom settings for that locomotive, so you can literally tune each locomotive to get the best performance out of it..

Loco decoders include the ability to set starting voltage and speed, top speed, configure reverse settings to be different from the forward settings and a whole host of of other options.

This is all done using configuration variables or CVs. While there are some common CVs in the NMRA DCC standard, many CVs are not standard and vary considerably from one decoder manufacturer to another. In order to get the most from a decoder, you can spend hours pouring over complex manuals trying to figure out binary bit settings to get certain features to work as you want.

A free open source decoder programming aid is now available called DecoderPro that alleviates most of the loco decoder programming pain and complexity. You need some sort of PC running either Windows, the Mac OS, or Linux. Using an internet connection, you can download DecoderPro, install it, connect your PC to your command station, and be in point-and-click decoder programming heaven!

The next few series of posts on this forum clinic we'll step through how to download, install, configure, and use DecoderPro to program decoders. Believe me, once you see how easy it is to program even complex decoder settings with DecoderPro, you won't want to go back to doing decoder programming by bit-fiddling with arcane CV's documented somewhere in your decoder manual!


DOWNLOADING DECODER PRO
Navigate your computer browser to this link:

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/

Click on the DecoderPro link on the left, then click on the download link at the top of the page. On this page you will see various versions listed for specific operating systems. In this clinic we focus on Windows, since the lion's share of PC users have that os.


(click to enlarge)


INSTALLING DECODER PRO
Once you have downloaded DecoderPro, you need to install it. On the DecoderPro main page you will see the install guides listed at the left. Click on the Windows link.


(click to enlarge)

On this page you can read about what you need to have hardware-wise to install DecoderPro. Your machine must be at least 120MHz Pentium II, have 64MB or more memory, and be able to display 800x600 screen resolution.

You also need to get and install Java. You may already have Java installed on your machine -- you can open a command window on your system and check to see if you already have Java installed. Open a MSDOS command line window and type the command shown here:


(click to enlarge)

If you have Java installed, you will get a response that lists the Java version, something like what we show here:


(click to enlarge)

I have Java 1.4.2 installed, which will work just fine – you need to have Java version 1.3.1 or later installed. I'm okay as it is, but for purposes of showing you here how to download and install Java, let's assume I need to download and install it (it's free from Sun Microsystems). Just below the sample “java -version” command you will see the link for downloading Java. Click the link:


(click to enlarge)

This takes you to a page with a button on it for downloading the latest version of Java. Click the button to download Java:


(click to enlarge)

Once you have downloaded the Java installer, double click on it, and answer yes to the license agreement. On the next screen, take the typical installation, as shown here:


(click to enlarge)

Once the install is complete, click the finish button:


(click to enlarge)

Now if you open the command window and type java -version you should see a version of Java listed. I did have version 1.4.2, but now you can see I have the latest version, which happens to be 1.5.0:


(click to enlarge)

Go ahead now and double click on the DecoderPro install icon to install DecoderPro itself.


STARTING UP DECODER PRO
With Java installed, you are all set to fire up DecoderPro. Just double click the DecoderPro icon on your desktop. You should see this box come up:


(click to enlarge)

Notice the programming buttons are grayed out ... that means you need to connect your PC to your command station. We'll cover how to do that in the next installment of this FORUM CLINIC.

TOPIC NEXT POST: Connecting your PC to your command station
06-02-2005 9:18 AM In reply to
Offline simon1966
Top 50 Contributor
Joined on 07-07-2003
Metro East St. Louis
Posts 4,205

RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

You can also access Decoderpro from the www.decoderpro.com web address. One really important point, to head off any installation problems, is to ensure that the correct version of Java is installed BEFORE you install Decoderpro. If you join the JMRI yahoo group you will quickly notice that 90% of problems with installation are as a result of installing the Decoderpro application before Java is correctly installed.

Decoderpro is an excellent application and is well worth supporting. When one considers that this is a volenteer project, made available for free, it is even more amazing.

There is a new version due out soon that will have support for the latest QSI sound equipped decoders. For now, the support for the sound portion of these decoders is very limited.
06-02-2005 10:52 AM In reply to
Offline n2mopac
Top 500 Contributor
Joined on 02-19-2001
Sedalia, MO
Posts 1,388

RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

Thanks, Joe and others, for your very complete and informative answers on my bulb questions. I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier. My 6 year old son has been in the hospital the past four days--just diagnosed with asthma. He is home and doing fine now, but I didn't have opportunity to check back here and respond until today for obvious reasons. Thanks again. I think I have a handle on it now.

Ron
06-02-2005 11:52 AM In reply to
Offline selector
Top 10 Contributor
Joined on 02-06-2005
Vancouver Island, BC
Posts 14,889

RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

That must have been a scare, Ron! Good to hear that he is okay and you can relax with us again.
06-02-2005 1:41 PM In reply to
Offline mark_in_utah
Not Ranked
Joined on 03-21-2005
Posts 408

RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

Trains are fun, kids are forever. Hope your son is doing much better.

My daughter fought asthma when she was younger (never went into the hospital), but between the hamster dying and her getting older she's doing much better. I hope the same can happen for your son.

Mark in Utah
06-03-2005 10:19 AM In reply to
Offline David Hodgins
Not Ranked
Joined on 05-24-2005
Posts 7

RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

Hi Everyone, just joined a short time ago and am new to just about all of this. I am currently just doing my homework so as not to make too many 'dumb, didn't do your research' kind of mistakes. You know, the ones that cost $$$? Just been cruising the threads trying to get the feel of things and I am truly impressed with everyones' knowledge of everything RR. The layout photos are awesome. I hope to tap into the huge talent base for info and tips.

Joe- thanks for the clinic. It really helps to hear from someone who has your knowledge and experience. All of the reading on DCC has had me in a fog as to the aspect of wiring the layout. So far this has clarified things a great deal.

Thanks to all
Dave
06-03-2005 3:08 PM In reply to
Offline jfugate
Top 100 Contributor
Joined on 01-05-2002
Portland, OR
Posts 3,140

RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

Dave:

Glad to hear you find this info useful ... that's why I take the time to post it here!

[:D]
06-03-2005 10:14 PM In reply to
Offline CARRfan
Top 500 Contributor
Joined on 12-28-2004
Posts 841

Angry [:(!] RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

Joe, thanks for all your tips.

I'll likely print out this thread and throw it into my MRR'ing notebook. I'm sure DCC is in my future.

Good stuff.

The best part is your info is more up to date than any book could be by the time it's printed!
06-08-2005 3:14 PM In reply to
Offline jfugate
Top 100 Contributor
Joined on 01-05-2002
Portland, OR
Posts 3,140

RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

TOPIC THIS POST: Connecting your PC to your command station

Once you have DecoderPro installed on your PC, you need to connect your PC to your command station so you can program decoders from it.

A note on PCs: Obviously, a laptop will be the most convenient type of PC to use for programming decoders with DecoderPro. If you look on ebay, you can often find used laptops with enough horsepower to easily run DecoderPro for a few hundred dollars. Newer laptops, on the other hand, often don't have a serial port – and a serial port (also known as an RS-232 port) is generally how DecoderPro expects you to connect your PC to DCC your command station. Modern laptops have dropped the older style serial port in favor of newer USB ports.

Fortunately, the loss of the serial port on modern laptops in favor of USB ports has caused USB to Serial Port convertors to become common to address this need. These devices typically cost from $20 - $60. The Keyspan converter, which costs about $50, has been thoroughly tested by the DecoderPro developers and found to work reliably, so they recommend it. Here's a link: http://keyspan.com/products/usb/USA19HS/#otherImages

USB to Serial Port converter

(click to view a larger image)

If you have an NCE system, connecting a PC to your command station couldn't be easier: you just plug in a standard 9-pin serial cable into the command station and off you go.

Connecting a PC to an NCE system is easy (9-pin port in upper middle-right)

(click to enlarge)


For EasyDCC, which I have, you need to construct your own cable, because the EasyDCC end requires an RJ-11 phone plug. I cover how to build one of these cables in the special features section of my upcoming video on all things DCC.


For Lenz, you need to get the LI computer interface (about $100), and then use a standard 9-pin serial cable to connect your computer to the system.

Connecting a PC to a Lenz system means you need to buy more hardware



For Digitrax, you need an adapter to connect your computer to LocoNet. Your choices are ( in order of preference): LocoBuffer II, LocoBuffer, or an MS-100. Your best bet is to use a LocoBuffer II, which goes for $60 from RR-CirKits.

Connecting a PC to a Digitrax system means you need to buy more hardware


For more details, or to learn about other DCC systems and how to connect to them, go to the DecoderPro hardware connectivity guide at: http://www.decoderpro.com/hardware/

If you want to use DecoderPro to program decoders with an Atlas, Bachman, or MRC DCC system, you are simply out of luck.

Once you have your PC connected to your command station then the fun begins! Inside DecoderPro, go to the preferences panel. This opens automatically the first time the program is run, or you can select it from the "Edit" menu. Select your system from the dropdown box, in my case I select EasyDCC since that's my system. Depending your system, you may have to select a baud rate -- the documentation that comes with your system's computer interface should tell you what to select. You can also go to the DecoderPro hardware link above for more detail.

Click "Save". You'll be asked if it's OK for the program to quit, click "Yes". Restart DecoderPro, and the programming buttons should no longer be grayed out, so you're all set to go!

Let's look at how to program a loco decoder with DecoderPro next.

TOPIC NEXT POST: Super-simple decoder programming with DecoderPro
06-08-2005 5:40 PM In reply to
Offline jfugate
Top 100 Contributor
Joined on 01-05-2002
Portland, OR
Posts 3,140

RE: FORUM CLINIC: Twelve years experience using DCC

Just making sure everyone is aware I've posted another clinic installment today.
Page 10 of 30 (439 items) « First ... < Previous 8 9 10 11 12 Next > ... Last »
« View Previous Thread | View Next Thread »
Copyright © 2009 TRAINS.COM
Powered by Community Server (Commercial Edition), by Telligent Systems
Help Contact us »  |  Customer Service »
E-mail Address:
Password:
Remember me
Forgot your password? | Login Help
Register » | Why join?
Get Newsletter
Get our free weekly newsletter delivered to your inbox
Details about our newsletters »
Read our privacy policy »
My Profile
Screenname: (get your screenname)
Search Community
in