Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

New DCC Choice

4465 views
25 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    April 2010
  • 225 posts
New DCC Choice
Posted by fender777 on Monday, May 10, 2010 8:16 PM

This post is not for asking who's Dcc is better'Just my first impressions after reading many post here and elseware and visiting a few LHS.They all had the Digitrax but no one in my town has the NCE.I saw and used the Zepher and they were very helpfull at showing me how it works for basic use.I have look at both Manuals.I really like the NCE manual.I could even understand most of it on first reading.They both seem like great units.My LHS wants $179 for the Zepher'they are quite high on most items.I hate that as I want to support them but man I hate paying to much.I did buy quite a bit of scenery stuff which was not to over price.But the one thing I do not like about the zepher is how to mount it.It is just akward.I love the powercab handheld unit and the plug in plate.It just seems to fit better on a large layout.So now I must decide in getting a zepher'where I would get local support but hate the look and it is not handheld.Or powercab which is handheld and made to fit on side of layout but no local support.Well what to do.Thanks for help here on this matter.

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: QLD, Australia
  • 1,111 posts
Posted by tbdanny on Monday, May 10, 2010 8:30 PM
The one thing you have to remember with a DCC system is that it's the interface between you and your trains.  If you're uncomfortable/unhappy with it, you won't enjoy running your layout.

The Location: Forests of the Pacific Northwest, Oregon
The Year: 1948
The Scale: On30
The Blog: http://bvlcorr.tumblr.com

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Metro East St. Louis
  • 5,743 posts
Posted by simon1966 on Monday, May 10, 2010 8:37 PM

Get the NCE system from a good on-line vendor that will back the product if it has a defect.  For the purposes of day-to-day support join the Yahoo group for NCE and or post questions here, there are enough folks that have experience to help out.  I can not see any reason to go with a system that you don't feel comfortable with.  The Zephyr is a great system, it is what I have and I love it, but clearly your needs are not well met by its configuration.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Monday, May 10, 2010 8:47 PM

 Or you can always add a handheld and plug in plates to the Zephyr. 10 handhelds, even older models if you can grab a deal on eBay - I just picke dup an old DT100 handheld for $25, but they usually go for much more. There is everythign from the do-everything DT400 to the simple engineer throttle UT-4. You cna have as many plug in plates as you want - the Digitrax one is the UP-5.

 Or add a radio receiver and wireless handheld to the zephyr and forget about the plug-in plates.

 My Zephyr will go either at my yard, where you stand in one place anyway, or at my workbench. Control around the layout will be with the DT100 and I plan to get a DT402. Most layouts have some palce where there's little need for a throttle on a cord, or do like MR did with the Salt Lake Route layout and put the Zephyr in a drawer and use only handhelds. That's one of the beauties of Digitrax, you cna start with the lowest system and go all the way up to block detection and signalling with computer control if you desire, and never have to replace a thing. And, in fact, never buy another Digitax product - there are third party options for everything, including throttles.

                                                --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    April 2010
  • 225 posts
Posted by fender777 on Monday, May 10, 2010 8:59 PM

One thing I did not mention when I saw the Zephyr was that it came with 2 wires to the main and 2 wires to a programm track.I thought that was neat.Do not know if that means alot or if the power cab has that feature.I guess the big plus in my area'I would be able to get hands on help.That could prove to be invalueable when trying to programm trains for the first time.Thanks BOB

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by Hamltnblue on Monday, May 10, 2010 9:21 PM

fender777

This post is not for asking who's Dcc is better'Just my first impressions after reading many post here and elseware and visiting a few LHS.They all had the Digitrax but no one in my town has the NCE.I saw and used the Zepher and they were very helpfull at showing me how it works for basic use.I have look at both Manuals.I really like the NCE manual.I could even understand most of it on first reading.They both seem like great units.My LHS wants $179 for the Zepher'they are quite high on most items.I hate that as I want to support them but man I hate paying to much.I did buy quite a bit of scenery stuff which was not to over price.But the one thing I do not like about the zepher is how to mount it.It is just akward.I love the powercab handheld unit and the plug in plate.It just seems to fit better on a large layout.So now I must decide in getting a zepher'where I would get local support but hate the look and it is not handheld.Or powercab which is handheld and made to fit on side of layout but no local support.Well what to do.Thanks for help here on this matter.

 

Well one way to think about it. If you understand the manual and can figure the NCE out yourself and with help on-line, is local support necessary?  I had Zero local support since I don't know anyone near me that runs.  I was up and running the same day.  The menu's are pretty self explanatory.  Also if your LHS has NCE available then there are definitely people in the area using it. 

Springfield PA

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 7:08 AM

I've got to agree that the throttle is your interface to the system.  If you don't like the throttle, you won't be happy.  I've got a Lenz, and the biggest selling point for me was the big buttons on the throttle.  With fat fingers and aging eyes, I'm just not into running my trains from a cell phone.

On a slightly different topic, try asking your LHS if they can order an NCE system for you.  Here's the painful part - if you want to support your LHS, you can't just do it on the little stuff.  Sometimes, you've got to pay more for a big-ticket item.  Now, some of us can afford to do that, and some can't.  It's OK.  The economy is what it is, and we've got other financial issues than trains.  But, if you want that LHS to be there 3 or 4 years from now, give it some thought.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Metro East St. Louis
  • 5,743 posts
Posted by simon1966 on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:19 AM

I agree, if you value your local hobby shop, support them with a purchase, but don't necessarily expect to get expert support.  Sure they will replace stuff, send it back, and may even help you with the basics.  But unless they are a DCC specialist, the likelihood is that you will fairly quickly outstrip their knowledge.  Even more so if they are having to order the system in for you in the first place.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: Thornton, CO
  • 763 posts
Posted by jwils1 on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:59 AM

Bob,

If a Power Cab is all you will ever need then it could be an excellent choice for you.  But, if expansion of your system is in your future then Digitrax could start looking very good, starting with a Zephyr base system.  But, in the end, your comfort with the handheld throttle of either system could well be the deciding factor for you.  It was for me.

Maybe you have been reading another thread on this same subject.  If not, it could be very helpful.  Here is the link:

http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/172560.aspx

Jerry

Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Hillsboro, Oregon
  • 934 posts
Posted by Eric97123 on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:33 AM

I got the Digitrax Empire builder about two months ago and I have been real happy with it.  It was about $100 more than the Zephyer but I liked the hand held throttle where I can controll two trains at the same time which I do not think the Zephyer can do and it has twice the power, which I dont need now but who knows down the road.

  • Member since
    April 2010
  • 8 posts
Posted by Ian_gallaugher on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 11:23 AM

one thing i'd like to mention. with the digitrax you can expand your plug in ports with normal phone jacks. you don't need the UP5's. the jacks you need must be 6 pin and the wire must have 6 leads. you just have to keep the same leads attached to the same pins in the jacks thoughout the network. use a central spot with a screw down connection to run the wires out to all the jacks or run the wire from jack to jack to jack, either way would work. easy peasy right...

well i do work for a phone company so easy for me. anyway off topic slightly but if one concern is handheld connections and throttles on Ebay were already discussed...

I think I am clairvoyant, I always know exactly what went wrong.
  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Christiana, TN
  • 2,134 posts
Posted by CSX Robert on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 1:20 PM
fender777
...I love the powercab handheld unit and the plug in plate.It just seems to fit better on a large layout...
How "large" of a layout are you talking about? If you can reach the whole layout with the seven foot Power Cab cord, then I see your reasoning. If not, then you will need to buy either a Smart Booster or another cab for your Power Cab, which price-wise would be comparable to buying a Zephyr and a walk around throttle. If that is the case I would suggest instead of just comparing the Zephyr and it's built in throttle to the Power Cab that you compare the complete system capabilities of each as well as the walkaround throttles of each system before making a decision on which way to go.
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: good ole WI
  • 1,326 posts
Posted by BerkshireSteam on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:33 PM

I know the pain. Digitrax is about the only thing used around here. The model train shop I go to still has the MRC dealer sticker in their window. As was told to me they sold both mentioned AND NCE but as the Digitrax became more popular they cut back on the other brands eventually cutting them out. They don't even cary those brands decoders, just Digitrax, Soundtraxx, and TCS recently. Thankfully though the MTS is around MSRP for their DCC systems. They usually have deals going on with there rolling stock too. Few months ago they had a deal with Athearn N cars that started out last fall as a buy 2 get 1 free then around xmas turned to buy 3 get 1 free. I think it was cut back to the 2/1 deal now. They also have a consignment shelf where I got my Railpower 1400 power pack, but it's mostly HO stuff.

  • Member since
    April 2010
  • 225 posts
Posted by fender777 on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 3:01 PM

Well after thinking hard about it,I am going Digitrax.The local hobby shop that has been their for many years is a certified dealer.Their tech uses the big digitrax system on their club layout.They are very knowing of the programming and such.Plus I do want to support them.I think I have decided on the Empire system.It comes with the hand held and 5 amps and the 2 port plugin.What's a few more bucks.Saves on the long run really.Thanks for so many thoughts.Bob

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 3:43 PM

 Now it's time to have fun!

 First thing I'd do is hit the Digitrax web site and check the latest version of the manual. Usually what's on the site is newer than what's in the box, and contrary to some opinions, Digitrax does listen to customer feedback and has steadily improved the manuals. The first part of each manual is a quick start guide that walks you step by step through what wires connect to where and what buttons to push to make a loco run. Don't skip steps. Plus you have the shop and at least one local club to fall back on. And there is also a Yahoo group for Digitrax. And here.

Edit: You probably already know, there's no need to use only Digitrax decoders. I actually prefer TCS myself, but if you are on a budget and need a bunch of decoders that are top quality but won't break the bank, you can order NCE D13SRJ decoders for less than $12 each in a 10-pack.

                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Metro East St. Louis
  • 5,743 posts
Posted by simon1966 on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 4:08 PM

Nice choice......now what you may hear next are howls of protest over the shortcomings of the SEB, ....which reminds me, what throttle is coming with the system?  Is it one of the new DT402's or an older DT400?  If the latter, I would negotiate for them to get the throttle upgraded to 402 spec.  They can send it back to Digitrax for that service..... anyway, I digress.  The greatest perceived shortcoming of the SEB is the inability to read CV's.  This may or may not mean anything to you at this point.  Suffice to say that there are many SEB users who are quite happy living without this feature, however, should you decide you are lacking in this regard, just remember that you can use the PR3 PC interface and the free Decoder Pro application to provide that capability.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Kansas
  • 808 posts
Posted by jamnest on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 4:33 PM

Which ever DCC system you purchase, a computer interface is a must.  Then download JMRI Decoder Pro for free.  It makes programing DCC as snap from menus on your PC rather than punching in CV codes on a throtle.

Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Hillsboro, Oregon
  • 934 posts
Posted by Eric97123 on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 5:23 PM

The Empire builder I got a couple months ago came with the DT402.  The manual is easy to follow and it comes with a great manual covering decoders and if it does not, you can download it.  It walks you through step by step on getting address to your trains, setting the running lights and some of the other common used functions.  My thinking was like yours, spend a little now and not have to upgrade right away. 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,449 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 6:11 PM

Hi!

Early last year I switched to DCC after decades of DC operation.  My reason for delay was mainly I was afraid of it (technology) and wouldn't enjoy it.  Well, I'm still not an electronics expert, but I got a fairly elaborate Digitrax system in place and working. 

Between the Manual, a few Kalmbach books, the wonderful folks on this Forum (especially!), and also a Yahoo group, I have had no reason to ask anyone at the LHS or manufacturer anything! 

I strongly advise you to get what you really want - and if the LHS can't help you, get it from one of the many reputable online companies out there. 

And, I guarantee you that any meaningful question you can ask, there are several regulars on this Forum that would be glad to assist.

Trust me!

Mobilman44

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,878 posts
Posted by maxman on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:03 PM

mobilman44
I strongly advise you to get what you really want - and if the LHS can't help you, get it from one of the many reputable online companies out there. 

 

I agree with you.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure he is getting what he "really" wanted, at least as he described in the original post.  Much is always made of the "get what is used locally because you'll get a lot of local support" point.  While there is some validity to this, I just can't see buying something that doesn't have the features I want just because everyone else has something different.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bettendorf Iowa
  • 2,173 posts
Posted by Driline on Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:17 AM

simon1966

I agree, if you value your local hobby shop, support them with a purchase, but don't necessarily expect to get expert support.  Sure they will replace stuff, send it back, and may even help you with the basics.  But unless they are a DCC specialist, the likelihood is that you will fairly quickly outstrip their knowledge.  Even more so if they are having to order the system in for you in the first place.

 

Simon is right. I bought my NCE Powercab through Tonys Trains Exchange online. They have more knowledge than my  LHS.Its your choice though. Enjoy your digitrax while I'll be enjoying my $150 Powercab Smile

Oh, and yes, you can add a programming track for a $25 part.

Modeling the Davenport Rock Island & Northwestern 1995 in HO
  • Member since
    April 2010
  • 163 posts
Posted by NorthCoast RR on Monday, May 17, 2010 9:46 AM

Great informative thread. I am just finishing up my benchwork, and getting ready to lay track. I have decided on going the DCC route, seems a no brainer...I have also been resaerching what unit to go with, andI think I am going with the Zephyr.

The more I read, the better i think it is going to be for me. Keep up the great posts.

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Metro East St. Louis
  • 5,743 posts
Posted by simon1966 on Monday, May 17, 2010 10:49 AM

The Z is an excellent system, but I can't help feel that there is a certain irony in your screen name.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

  • Member since
    November 2007
  • 8 posts
Posted by trrjohn on Monday, May 17, 2010 1:13 PM

NCE factory service and help is fantastic if you have a problem. You can talk directly with Larry and Jim and get answers. I am changing from CTC80 to NCE DCC. I like the advanced consisting of NCE.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: East central Missouri
  • 1,065 posts
Posted by Santa Fe all the way! on Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:21 AM

OK no one has mentioned it, but I love my MRC Prodigy Squared DCC system!!!! Its simple to use and the handheld throttle fits comfortably in my hand. I would agree with others who have said get what feels right to you. Before I purchased my DCC unit, I tried out the other makers units and Im very happy with my decision.  It didnt hurt that I got a REALLY good deal on my system. $195 ! Remember to have fun.

Come on CMW, make a '41-'46 Chevy school bus!
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Metro East St. Louis
  • 5,743 posts
Posted by simon1966 on Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:35 AM

Santa Fe all the way!
It didnt hurt that I got a REALLY good deal on my system. $195 ! Remember to have fun.

Indeed, MRC is the one system that can be purchased for huge discounts from list.  They have certainly chosen a different method of marketing their systems.  NCE and Digitrax seem to prefer a network of experienced DCC dealers, MRC seems to show up everywhere including hobby shops that hardly have any MRR to speak of.  It is definitely a different approach and suggests to me that they are actively trying to buy market share.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!