Scratchbuilding a laser cut engine house for the Bronx Terminal

Great work Tim, I was wondering about the track going into the building; it seems to run across a turnout. Will you have to make a change to your track plan there or will the building be moved to another final location? BTY, the video of your laser cutter at work is very interesting, I had never seen one of these critters at work. I particularly liked how it scribed the boards on the walls and doors without cutting all the way through. You might post the link here as well as imbedding it in your blog.

Nice job...a clean, simple, very logical, utilitarian design, and likely one an awful lot more representative of common, property-starved, smaller RRs and branchlines, than the huge stone/brick, multi-stall, versions most often found on HO layouts. Excellent laser-cut design for assembly, too.

Also appreciated your honestly in mentioning that creating a scratch model using a laser cutter requires a lot more time than doing it the old fashion way. Too many hobbyists today think that the high tech approach to personally making models in the future is going to be a quick and simple procedure...ignorance is bliss!

CNJ831 

After seeing bits and pieces of Tim's layout here and on his running blog, I had the pleasure of seeing it in person at the Springfield, MA, show this past winter.  The intricate trackwork is a work of art.  I took a number of pictures of the car float, since I'm planning one myself and I wanted to get ideas from the same kit which had been very nicely assembled.

I'm still looking forward to the Freight House.  It's such a unique and interesting structure that we'll all gain from watching it go together.  Since I assume you'll be doing it on the laser, perhaps others might be interested in a craftsman kit of that structure.

A scrach built, laser cut structure could be a laser kit for those poor unfortunates who don't have their own laser machines.  (Hint)

Mark

 Cool!

That's a fast and easy way to get the prototype shed.

But you need the knowledge for the program and the tools (laser cutter). 

Wolfgang

G Paine

Great work Tim, I was wondering about the track going into the building; it seems to run across a turnout. Will you have to make a change to your track plan there or will the building be moved to another final location? BTY, the video of your laser cutter at work is very interesting, I had never seen one of these critters at work. I particularly liked how it scribed the boards on the walls and doors without cutting all the way through. You might post the link here as well as imbedding it in your blog.

 If you read back on the history of the prototype on Tim's site, it will answer most of the questions. He built the thing on top of scaled drawings of the actual location - nothing is compressed, it's completely to scale.  The access to the enginehouse did indeed go over other turnouts - what the real railroad did was have pieces of rail they laid over top when they needed to move the engine in and out of the house. Not sure how you could simulate that in HO scale - I don't know if the pieces would stay in place, plus there's the whole issue of shorting out the other tracks. I wouldn;t be surprised though if Tim figures out a way to do it.

                                             --Randy

I just looked up the term "scratchbuilding" and wikipedia came up with : It's the process of building a scale model "from scratch", ie. from raw materials, rather than building it from a commercial kit.  Another said :  A model part, or base built from scratch, as opposed to using pre-manufactured kits, parts, etc.

 Am I  missing something here?

 By those definitions, this model was completely scratchbuilt....

Sorry what page of the Micromark catalog was that laser on? Sorry whats next a rapid prototyping machines? Punching keys and calling it model building

 A laser cutter is nothing more than a glorified knife, just faster, beyond that, its pure modeling...

Hi Tim,

Nice work as usual and icredible trackwork.

Yes some readers of this post have right, don't beleive it's just to put on a button to cut this model, there is a lot of work of programming.

I beleive you use autocad and even if you are a professionnal user, you need certainly two of three hours of programming and checkout.

Of course the model is very accurate and had precise cut pieces but I need a lot of programming time before you push on the "button". and anyway the plans are scratchbuild.

Hope to see the round storage depot in the middle become a wood model in the near future.

Marc Magnus/Belgium

Tim

don't let the narrow minded opinions of a few bother you. I went thru the same crap a while back when I showed a model of a GE centercab switcher I built. I was told it did not meet the criteria to be called scratch built since I used a comercially available motor and trucks. They simply looked over the fact that I had over 300 hours into building the shell and frame to not only look proper but to also accept the motor and drive train and have it dependable. As to the work you did... simply awesome! You are also correct in stating the laser is nothing more than a fancy Exacto knife. The laser can't do anything untill the work is done ahead of time to program it. I can guess on the amount of time you have sitting in front of Autocad  (just reread Tim's post and noticed he solid modeled this in Solidworks) or a similar program to design the parts to fit as I did the same thing for a model of a Whitcomb center cab switcher I am currently working on.

Keep up the good work

Dan

 Hi,

 Thanks for the feedback.  Obviously some of the posters didn't actually read the original post on my blog, which covers the design process in detail focusing on the amount of design time that goes into a model like this. (about 10-12 hours).  THEN, the model doesn't build itself.... lol

 Wow, I guess some people have no clue. So it now matters what TOOL you use to be able to call it scratchbuilding? Please.

 I invite anyone wh thinks it's so easy to go ahead and try to draw and render a structure in CAD and then figure out just hwere the joints can fall so that it goes together cleanly. ABout the only thing gained by techniques like this is it makes it easier to build a second, third, fourth... one, because once all the design work is done, you can crank out as many 'kits' as you want. But that first step....she's a doozy!

  Not that laser cutters are cheap, but there ARE smaller and less expensive models than the one Tim has - remember he also runs a business with that tool.

                       --Randy

I would imagine that we could say that creating a model with a laser cutter is somewhat like creating a Hydrocal casting from a home-made mold.  Yes, it takes a long time to make that mold, just as it takes a long time to create the inputs for the laser cutter.  The first casting, start to finish, takes days or even weeks.  But, after that you can turn out copies very quickly.

My guess is, if Tim wants a second copy of this model, he could turn out the laser-cut sheets pretty quickly, right?  Later on, he'll be able to do the same with that freight house...

     Tim thank you for your post. That is one neat enginehouse and the video on the laser at work is amazing as is all your work. People who are uninformed do not realize how much work and time it takes just to prepare the plans to create something of this nature. The laser machine makes it look so easy that it seems like there is very little time between the idea and the finished model. Don't you wish that when it got the parts cut out that it would paint and assemble the model. Nah what fun would that be! Thanks again for posting a very informative video!

Jim

Tim, I can realistically say that you would get a perfect score in NMRA judging in the scratch building catagory!!!  What some have said is like my sister telling me once that using a computer to write a letter isn't really writing a letter because you didn't hand write it!!!!  Well she is an Artist and thinks that way.  Or did, until she finally bought a computer!?!

If I hear some people correctly at times on here if you build a structure out of wood you didn't scratch build it unless you grew the tree from a seed you planted and then chopped it down with a herring! Using a chain saw would be cheating!  And you did start with the basic material.  It was cut from a piece of wood if I saw correctly.

Nice work, sir!  (And I sure wish I had access to a laser cutter and the knowledge to use it.)

I'm sending a rendering of a sawmill to company that will laser cut it to a pile of walls etc, just like a store bought kit, will this still make me a "scratchbuilder'' ?

tatans

I'm sending a rendering of a sawmill to company that will laser cut it to a pile of walls etc, just like a store bought kit, will this still make me a "scratchbuilder'' ?

 Going to have them build it too?

Amazing how some people find things to complain about.Offending their tender snsibilities about "what is or isn't scratchbuilding" .. are their really enough minutes in the day for such inanities?

tatans

I'm sending a rendering of a sawmill to company that will laser cut it to a pile of walls etc, just like a store bought kit, will this still make me a "scratchbuilder'' ?

 It's safe to say it is NOT scratch building in the "traditional" sense of the word. Scratch building is synonymous with the term "One off" the real beauty of traditional scratch building is even if the same builder builds two identical structures there are always subtle differences. So then are companies like Fine Scale Miniatures, Blair Line, Bar Mills, etc. scratch builders or kit manufactures? I'm sure they own similar type machines and someone sat at a keyboard and took the 2D drawing to a CNC program.

Perhaps a sign of things to come? I think not simply because of the cost involved. CAD isn't all that hard after you've been doing it for a while. The biggest problem with it is that there are too many ways to do the same thing. The CAD programs most are familiar with such as the track planning programs are nothing compared to using AutoCAD, Solid Works, Pro E etc. I have certifications from Autodesk in all three and to be quite honest never use them for my modeling other then a few structure templates for a friend who read the article on MR and thought it was a great idea.

Not to detract from your model building ability which is obviously outstanding but the difference is machines don't create art people do.

This depot is scratchbuilt.  I designed it (inspired by a prototype) and made it from commercial parts (Grandtline windows, somebody's stripwood, siding, roofing, etc.)

This plow/flanger was a kit with the manufacturer providing the plans, instructions, and myriad parts.

Trust me, the kit was much more time-consuming and difficult to assemble.

If you only want to confuse the issue, please "take a walk."

Mark

Allegheny2-6-6-6

So then are companies like Fine Scale Miniatures, Blair Line, Bar Mills, etc. scratch builders or kit manufactures?

Actually, they are both.  I put this question to some of the board of the NMRA last year, as I had a few buildings that I designed as kits and asked if I would be eligible to enter into contests as scratchbuilt structures.  I was told in no uncertain terms that yes, as the designer and builder of the initial structure, it would qualify as scratchbuilt, regardless how the parts were cut out.  But only I would be eligible for that distinction, anyone else building the same structure would have to fall into the kit category.

 Makes perfect sense, considering many of the FSM kits were originally designed and, certainly in the days before CAD and laser cutting machines, scratch built by George for the F&SM and then LATER turned into kits to be sold to others.

                                         --Randy

Howdy, Tim,

Count me in the group of possible customers for a kit of your mini-enginehouse.  It's just what my crew would need to get them out of the weather when one of my teakettle tank locos needs some TLC.

Beautiful work on the entire Bronx Terminal project.  If nothing else, it puts the arguments that you:

1. Can't switch on less than 24 inch radius.
2. Can't run on less than 18 inch radius.
3. Can't build ANYTHING to the prototype's exact plans.

in serious jeopardy.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with 400mm radius curves)

 Yes, the design from a structure for any machine is a lot of work, brain work! You must have the knowledge for this. In this way it's scratch build.

 Wolfgang

tomikawaTT

Count me in the group of possible customers for a kit of your mini-enginehouse. 

That engine house might work on my planned private industrial railroad's small class "B" Climax and 45-ton Whitcomb.  What's the interior length of that puppy?

Mark

I was told even though I bought raw materials from a lumber yard, because I used a power saw, I was not a carpenter. So, in dismay, I quit. I  became a mechanic. Then I was told I was not a real mechanic because I used a diagnostic computer and a multimeter instead of my ears and a screwdriver. Once again crushed, I quit and became a farmer. But, alas, because I used a tractor and a combine, and not a horse, I was told I was not a real farmer. Destroyed, I just stayed home and started model railroading. Now I'm being told I'm not a model railroader because I don't model something like I'm supposed too. Lovely. Just lovely.