jt burke
Marion, OH
C&O and Chessie System Modeler
www.marionmodelrailroadclub.org
JT,
I bought one a few years ago for the same reason you are considering, i.e. price. For the money, I don't think it can be beat. I think it might be overkill for some folks, but mine has worked flawlessly. It's both heavy and loud, but does the job well. I'm not sure what the motor is rated at, but its been effective at exhausting the paint fumes. I have mine connected with ordinary flexible clothes dryer ducting to the outside. My opinion is that it's an excellent value--will probably last my lifetime and then some!
I just got my 22-16 a couple of weeks ago!!! I looked a lot of the different ones out there and decide it was best for me.
Modeling the Klamath River area in HO on a proto-lanced sub of the SP “The State of Jefferson Line”
How did you guys duct them to the outside? I built a home made one out of foamcore board and a ventilation fan I had but now that I'm using a lot more solvent based paint I am not sure about using a fan without an explosion proof motor.
I had simply taken out on of the pains of glass in the basement window and cut a piece of 1/4' plywood and cut a dryer vent into it.
Mine is in a shed outside, so I just went to the local Home Depot, bought the duct work and an exhaust vent, drilled a 4" hole in the wall, and that was about it. I didn't occur to me to seal the pieces with caulk, but that's probably a good idea.
You can save yourself about $175 by easily building your own. This set-up is perfect for acrylics.
Google Sketch up link. http://tinyurl.com/yfj8ogu
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
I use mine in the garage. I do make a point to turn OFF the space heater while painting enamels and stay away from the water heater and HVAC just in case.
ratled
Capt. GrimekI've been trying to find one to look at. I have seen and heard a Micro Lux (Artograph) in use. I'm wondering how important the exhaust direction is. Some people say that back exhaust like the Paasche bring more dust from the room across the painted surfaces and the gravity down exhaust versions don't. What do you owners think? Been trying to find a Paasche to see in person N. of Seattle, WA but no luck finding a dealer, etc. Lastly, are you using yours IN the house rather than in a shop or garage or basement? I'll need to. Wondering about scents in the house. EVERY time threads are started asking about specific brands they always turn into the DIY thread!
Sorry Pal, but there have probably been a few thousand new forum members that didn't read your LAST post on this subject. Why shouldn't someone, considering purchase, have the option to save a great deal of time and money on a DYI project as simple as this?
This forum is for everyone, don't forget that.
Neutrino You can save yourself about $175 by easily building your own. This set-up is perfect for acrylics. Google Sketch up link. http://tinyurl.com/yfj8ogu
I've read a good deal on this myself. I seriously considered the Artograph model as well, given that my understanding is that a downward draft booth is more efficient than a cross draft. However, I like the solid base you get with a cross draft and not having to use a piece of cardboard/styrene to set your model on, not to mention a turntable should you so desire. Working directly ON TOP of the prefilter sounds like an annoyance to me.
As for dust, I would say that if you're experiencing dust issues with a cross draft booth, you have too much dust in your workshop and a downward draft isn't going to help much (note that the Artograph booth doesn't have a hood to prevent dust from settling from above). Nip your dust issue at the point of it's origin and dont try to dance around it with a different booth design that likely wont minimize the problem. FWIW, I doubt that most of us have THAT big of a dust problem anyway, so for me, the issue of dust contaminating the booth is moot.
Allegheny2-6-6-6 How did you guys duct them to the outside? I built a home made one out of foamcore board and a ventilation fan I had but now that I'm using a lot more solvent based paint I am not sure about using a fan without an explosion proof motor. I had simply taken out on of the pains of glass in the basement window and cut a piece of 1/4' plywood and cut a dryer vent into it.
Mine was a DIY project done on the cheap, mostly used/scrounged components. The fan is a salvaged bathroom vent fan with a light, so it also illuminates my booth for working. The booth sides and top were made from plywood salvaged from shipping boxes (small crates). The only thing new I bought was the switch and box, wire, and vent tube. The fan's output is standard 4" diameter, so I roll it over in front of our clothes dryer, disconnect the hose from the vent saver, and connect it to the booth's fan output. The fumes get blown outside.
The concern with "explosion proof motor" seems to be overplayed. The recommendation probably comes from commercial paint booths where the painter is wearing a full air supplied "space suit." To get ignition with the volume a modeller sprays, even with the fumes from a VOC based paint like Floquil, you'd need a concentration of paint fumes so strong, you wouldn't be able to breathe. Start the vent fan before you start to spray, wear a respirator appropriate for the type paint you'll be spraying, and if the "fog" from the painting obscures your vision, stop and allow it to clear before continuing.
The other claim of updraft or downdraft pulling more dust across the painted area seems doubtful at best. Airborne dust will be drawn across the painted surfaces regardless of which direction the air is flowing. The problem is solved by doing your painting in a place where the airborne dust is minimized.
I would bet that 98% of the forum readers will never have the need to buy a $200 spray booth. That may be the reason that you're having trouble getting the response you desire?
The most color conscious proto modeler I know never uses an air brush. He paints with all the safety precautions expected and uses Scale Coat II paint, applied with a brush. His name is John Pitts.
Picture used with permission.
NeutrinoI would bet that 98% of the forum readers will never have the need to buy a $200 spray booth. That may be the reason that you're having trouble getting the response you desire?
That's all fine and dandy for Mr. Pitts. That car looks fabulous, no doubt! The SUBJECT of this thread was Paasche booths and input about THEM....thus Capt. Grimek's comment is justified, because you went off topic. You are right that this forum is for everyone, and there are about a thousand threads on DIY booths that users can search. Someone commenting because you posted off topic committed no wrong. I, personally, am not upset at all with your input....but understand where other readers might be coming from. John Pitts does beautiful brush painting. You use a DIY booth. I handlay N scale turnouts. Should I start commenting on threads for user's asking about Peco turnouts, because I say building your own is cheaper/better/whatever and that 98% of modelers have no need to buy commercial turnouts? (I am right, for even 100% of modelers dont need to buy commercial turnouts, but there are justified reasons for doing so, as there are justified reasons to buy a commercial booth). Your tone suggests that anyone willing to spend $200 on a booth is inferior or an idiot or wasting their money. People work in different ways. I know great custom painters who sit outside, great ones who built their own and great ones who use commercial booths. Logic in one's mind is absurdity to another.
I just wanted some opinions about the Paasche booth. All the dude ever wanted was his rug back.
MuseproNeutrinoI would bet that 98% of the forum readers will never have the need to buy a $200 spray booth. That may be the reason that you're having trouble getting the response you desire? That's all fine and dandy for Mr. Pitts. That car looks fabulous, no doubt! The SUBJECT of this thread was Paasche booths and input about THEM....thus Capt. Grimek's comment is justified, because you went off topic. You are right that this forum is for everyone, and there are about a thousand threads on DIY booths that users can search. Someone commenting because you posted off topic committed no wrong. I, personally, am not upset at all with your input....but understand where other readers might be coming from. John Pitts does beautiful brush painting. You use a DIY booth. I handlay N scale turnouts. Should I start commenting on threads for user's asking about Peco turnouts, because I say building your own is cheaper/better/whatever and that 98% of modelers have no need to buy commercial turnouts? (I am right, for even 100% of modelers dont need to buy commercial turnouts, but there are justified reasons for doing so, as there are justified reasons to buy a commercial booth). Your tone suggests that anyone willing to spend $200 on a booth is inferior or an idiot or wasting their money. People work in different ways. I know great custom painters who sit outside, great ones who built their own and great ones who use commercial booths. Logic in one's mind is absurdity to another. I just wanted some opinions about the Paasche booth. All the dude ever wanted was his rug back.
You are 100% correct and I apologize.
Regards,
Jerry Jackson
I am no expert on airbrushing but I did manage to build a homemade spray booth that seems to work quite well. The fan I used was a 16" square box fan with 3 speeds. Around the fan I built a plywood tapered box so the open side is about 30" x 20". This gives a decent amount of space to work in. I used a 24" flourescent fixture for illumination mounted just inside the top of the box. For filtration I use a 16" square furnace filter which fits tightley into the back of the box right in front of the fan. The 3 speed fan provides lots of draw and the filters seem to grab most of the overspray (but not fumes obviously). I believe it would be very easy to hook the exhaust to an outside vent if desired. The cost was dirt cheap because I had had the fan for years and the plywood was ready and waiting in the garage. The original cost of the fan was about $25 and the light was was about $20. The plywood is 1/2 inch and a 4' x 8' sheet will be plenty to make the box. The filters are dirt cheap too. The plywood panels were glued and screwed together and sealing all the joints was done with latex caulking. The rest of the $200 I spent on trains (and then some!). If you have access to a table saw or radial arm saw you might want to give this a try. One of the things I love about this hobby is that it challenges you to make something from scratch. Heck, the only thing I have to apply to the spray booth now is the CP lettering (joke).
Take care.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
By the way, I am sorry if my reply did not address the original question which was asking for an evaluation of the Paasche spray booth. I have not been watching the forums for too long so I may have duplicated advice offered in the past about DIY booths. My goal in responding was only to show that there are other alternatives to the comercially available stuff and that you can have some fun making a booth yourself. Paasche makes good stuff. I have one of their airbrushes and will buy a dual action one as soon as funds allow. Dave
NeutrinoYou are 100% correct and I apologize. Regards,Jerry Jacksonhttp://protoweathering.com/SMF/index.php
Jerry,
So then you're saying I'm correct in your view that we are idiots for spending $200 on a commercial booth? LOL.....I'm just razin'. Believe me, I am trying to find a design that I can build at a low cost that I believe will give me the results I'm looking for. I'd rather spend the extra on trains too! But I found myself spending so much time researching and wondering the hardware stores looking for parts that my time investment was beginning to offset any savings in money. I'm getting to the point where I'd just rather buy a commercial booth I KNOW will work well and get my time back to modeling. Make sense? The Paasche booth is $200, but it's designed by airbrush professionals to safely and efficiently do the job and should last the rest of my life. So a $200 investment for a lifetime of clean, properly ventilated airbrushing isn't so bad (it's darn good as far as tool investments go). I used to find it difficult to invest in tools, until I did and realized my modeling quality and efficiency jumped way up!
NeutrinoCapt. GrimekI've been trying to find one to look at. I have seen and heard a Micro Lux (Artograph) in use. I'm wondering how important the exhaust direction is. Some people say that back exhaust like the Paasche bring more dust from the room across the painted surfaces and the gravity down exhaust versions don't. What do you owners think? Been trying to find a Paasche to see in person N. of Seattle, WA but no luck finding a dealer, etc. Lastly, are you using yours IN the house rather than in a shop or garage or basement? I'll need to. Wondering about scents in the house. EVERY time threads are started asking about specific brands they always turn into the DIY thread! Sorry Pal, but there have probably been a few thousand new forum members that didn't read your LAST post on this subject. Why shouldn't someone, considering purchase, have the option to save a great deal of time and money on a DYI project as simple as this? This forum is for everyone, don't forget that.
What a lot of people neglect to realize is the difference between a booth like the O/P discribed and the home made version is the presence of an proof fan motor. When spraying acrylic's the need isn't nearly as great if at all if your spraying in a large well ventilated space. However when using solvent based paint IE: Lacquer thinner you have a miniature bomb in your hand the fumes generated by using lacquer paint are extremely explosive and probably have an LEL (Lethal Explosion Limit) of probably less then 4% concentration. So when your spraying and those fumes come in contact with a spark from non explosion proof motor the result can be lethal and that my friend is a fact. I have a home made spay booth for my model railroading that worked fine for spraying acrylics but now that I'm using a lot more solvent based paints I have a definite need for a booth with an explosion proof motor. Go to a place like Mcmaster.com and check out how much they cost, you'll see that this booth is a bargain no question about it. Unfortunately when it comes to spray painting far too many people take the safety aspect of it for granted a mistake that can be fatal.
Allegheny2-6-6-6. Go to a place like Mcmaster.com and check out how much they cost, you'll see that this booth is a bargain no question about it. Unfortunately when it comes to spray painting far too many people take the safety aspect of it for granted a mistake that can be fatal.
You can get an explosion/spark proof fan motor as a seperate item and still go DIY. No need to go the mfg route everytime you do something. Besides the risk, especially in a well ventilated place, is not as great as it appears. That 4-5% concentration figure is after a long time exposure in the first place. I've been around spray booths of the auto variety and have never seen one go PTOOOF!! yet.
Then again, maybe we can suggest that the solvent based paints may not be the best to use in the first place. If you have issues with it's safety use something a little less problematic then.
My painting area is ventilated through 2 exhaust fans plus a draw in fan for fresh air. A bit of overkill considering how much I've used it but it is still there--- The fans exhaust through a ventilation hood over the work area/bench while fresh air cycles in through the side of the garage---
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Bary the reason why you don't see spray booths go boom is exactly why explosion proof fans and lighting are used. I have a little bit of experience with them being there is one out in my shop that cost me $77,000 back in 1997 when I had my body shop. The % figure is from the NFPA not something I lulled out of the air. Believe me I am the king of DIY but some times it's easier and more cost effective to just shell out the less then $200 in this case and be done with it. Another aspect that some don't consider is that believe it or not they just didn't pull that fan off a shelf and say yeah this one looks good but rather an engineer did some calculations to determine what fan would work in that little booth and give you the proper amount of draw for the size of the booth. I have seen guys do full paint jobs in home made spray booths that came out looking like someone threw a hand ful of sand in the paint job because they pulled dirt and dust form every corner of the shop.
Hey if your happy and feel safe using your DIY booth more power to you goodluck and I hope you get years of trouble free use out of it but for me and the O/P as well as a few others in this case I'll bite the bullet and spend the $200 it's worth it to me for peace of mind sake.
Deleted by me
Allegheny2-6-6-6 Another aspect that some don't consider is that believe it or not they just didn't pull that fan off a shelf and say yeah this one looks good but rather an engineer did some calculations to determine what fan would work in that little booth and give you the proper amount of draw for the size of the booth. I have seen guys do full paint jobs in home made spray booths that came out looking like someone threw a hand ful of sand in the paint job because they pulled dirt and dust form every corner of the shop.
A lot of people may not take into consideration the volume of the space they are working with. I do most of my spray painting--such as that is--in a 24'x26' garage. I've seen people try using a 4'x6' broomcloset space sealed away from outside air and wonder why they're always in/out all the time. So that concentration level may also depend on just where one does this
As for the dust/dirt thing, unless one does this in a 'clean room' with a dust extraction system, one will probably find SOME level of dust. Me? I don't have that problem because I sort of worked in labs with extraction hoods---
Interesting comment MusePro, because threads on which commercial turnout to use always seem to devolve into how poster hand built theirs.
I ran into a similar "problem" when I posted a request on comparing models of paint booths. Maybe no one has the experience or just doesn't want to talk a couple of minutes to share and respond.
BTW Not everyone wants to cobble together a spray booth or turnout etc. but is willing to spend some money for someone else to do the work.
Alan
Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/
Quick Google search turned up: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/124653.aspx
I just read the instruction cautions on the Paasche HSSB-22-16 and the first caution was NOT to use this equipment in explosive atmospheres. What's with that?
73
Bruce in the Peg
Blind Bruce I just read the instruction cautions on the Paasche HSSB-22-16 and the first caution was NOT to use this equipment in explosive atmospheres. What's with that?
Probably doesn't have an explosion proof, non-sparking, motor.