samfp1943

Arriving almost 24 hours behind schedule, Amtrak's California Zephyr arrived in Chicago with a trainload of passengers who described themselves as "tired, hungry and stinky."

The train, which left Sacramento five days ago, was delayed by severe weather and numerous mishaps on route and pulled into Union Station more than 19 hours late..."

19 hours or 24 hours late?  Left Sacramento five days earlier?   Not making much sense.  But then NBC5 is a pretty poor news operation in Chicago. 

schlimm

samfp1943

Arriving almost 24 hours behind schedule, Amtrak's California Zephyr arrived in Chicago with a trainload of passengers who described themselves as "tired, hungry and stinky."

The train, which left Sacramento five days ago, was delayed by severe weather and numerous mishaps on route and pulled into Union Station more than 19 hours late..."

 

19 hours or 24 hours late?  Left Sacramento five days earlier?   Not making much sense.  But then NBC5 is a pretty poor news operation in Chicago. 

Where todays news media is concerned, I would guess even getting the story commented on is a real plus, accuracy of details is a totally different matter. 19 hrs vs. 120 hrs (5 days late) is sort of analogous to the old joke that, " close only counts in hand grenades, and nuclear warfare."

The way I took the article is that they threw the weather part out the door and blamed the whole mess on Amtrak.  I guess the old saying is quite true.  "If it bleeds, it leads."

The phrase about the train being 24 hours late comes from one of the versions of the "Rock Island Line" song.  It goes like this:

*    *   *

The 7:45 was always late

But arrived today about a quarter to 8

The engineer said as they cheered his name

"Well, we're right on time, but this is yesterday's train".

*   *   *

In my other hobby, I'm a musician, and I play this song all the time. 

    I saw this piece on NBC tonight and I cringed because I know what the angry passengers are talking about.  Nineteen hours late is incredible; if nothing else, what did they feed these people?  I think if I were in the same metal tube for nearly four days I'd be a little unreasonable at the end of it myself!

   Isn't part of the problem that we expect miracles from an aging car fleet and from railroads which have cut back on the personnel needed to keep the trains running regardless of the weather?  Bad winter weather has been part of the scene in overland travel since 1869.  Why do the railroads, or Amtrak, always seemed surprised by it every year, not just Out West but all over the country?

   Here's another way to look at this:  What would it take to make today's Amtrak trains as dependable, no matter what the weather, as trains were 50, 60, or 70 years ago?  What are the chances we'll  see increasing train problems and cancellations in the next few years?

   Also, in all fairness, the NBC piece pointed out that the #5 in question hit a vehicle at a grade crossing after the weather delays.  I'll venture that the crew outlawed, too, and that further delayed things.

   Poor Amtrak.  Poor passengers.  Poor traveling public.

The mention of the tracks going through a cut and the snow piled up high is an important point. The use of a rotary plow to clear it by the BNSF is also revealing.  Does anyone here know the exact location of this cut? This may be an important place for BNSF look to some way to mitigate this location. I imagine that their freight delays are not pleasing.

NKP guy

Bad winter weather has been part of the scene in overland travel since 1869.  Why do the railroads, or Amtrak, always seemed surprised by it every year, not just Out West but all over the country?

Here's another way to look at this:  What would it take to make today's Amtrak trains as dependable, no matter what the weather, as trains were 50, 60, or 70 years ago?  What are the chances we'll  see increasing train problems and cancellations in the next few years? 

Amtrak's long distance passenger trains, which carry less than 4/10s of one per cent of intercity travelers, are a major loser for Amtrak, and are not a serious transport option for the traveling public.  In fact, they lose enough money to wipe out all the operating surpluses earned by the NEC.  And they are a big harassment for the railroads that must hoist them.  The hoist railroads are forced by law to carry Amtrak's long distance trains.  They would junk them in a minute if they could.  And I suspect that Amtrak management, if given the option, would get out of the long distance train business in favor of improving the short, relatively high density corridors where passenger trains make sense.

It's interesting to observe the wailing and gnashing of teeth that occurs when the "Empire Builder" is 19 hours late because of the weather but not much is made of the mass cancellations and delays of flights into and out of ORD and MDW for the same reason.  Also, if an airline passenger is stranded because of the weather, the airline will NOT pay for the lodging based on personal experience.

To put things in perspective I've been cancelled flying out of Florida at this time of year and both times I was told rebooking would be 4 - 5 days later at the earliest. The second time I was able to catch the  Amtrak local on the day I was cancelled out of West Palm Beach and rode back with a train full of people who had been stranded for a week already due to flights not running. Not a mention of this in the press. I have also spent more time waiting to take off after boarding than the duration tome of the flight. Yes the train took 34 hours to wind it's way north to New York, but it got there. Yes long distance rail travel can be excruciating and yes it's badly undersubsidized, but it serves a purpose and deserves to continue.  J.R.

cruisingthepast

Amtrak is an embarrassment. It has been from its beginning. The name "Amtrak" even makes one cringe. When you continually hear people boast about America being the greatest country in the world - Amtrak is always edited out as it could only qualify as one of the worst run organization in the world.

To describe Amtrak as the worst run organization in the world is quite an indictment.  It is a bit over the top.

I took three long distance Amtrak trips in 2009, as well as corridor trips from LAX to San Diego, San Francisco to Sacramento, Pittsburgh to Philadelphia (short haul train), Philadelphia to New York, and Philadelphia to BWI.  Also, I rode the Texas Eagle from Temple, TX to Dallas three times during 2009.

The corridor trains were quick, dependable, clean, economical and safe.  They were not as quick as so-called high speed trains, but they more than met my needs.  Well, the Acela, which I rode once from Philadelphia to New York, meets my definition of high speed.

Most of the Amtrak personnel that I encountered did a good job of serving me.  Oh, I ran into the odd sorehead, but they were few and far between.

Amtrak does an effective job of running the corridor trains, at least according to the statistics that it publishes, especially those in the NEC.  It is challenged by the long distance trains because of schedule infrequency, aging equipment, dependence on sometimes hostile hoist railroads, and relatively few passengers. 

The biggest challenge facing Amtrak's management is the oversight provided by 536 self appointed board members, who are convinced that they know more about running a passenger railroad than the hired management team.  We know them better as the House of Representatives, Senate, and President.  Throw in the Vice President and it becomes 537 board members.  Given the political constraints besetting Amtrak, it is no wonder that they have to struggle against some stiff odds. 

These cancellations were probably a very good idea. WHY? Almost all locomotives use DC traction motors which can short out when a lot of snow is ingested. Hopefully the loco order that Boardman promises will be all AC traction motors (will take a long time to deliver). Then in winter time they can be assigned to predicted snow routes. At least the next 2 - 3 winters will keep AMTRAK still at risk for the this shortings of the DC traction motors. Maybe for the rest of this winter and the future winters AC locomotives from the class 1s will be borrowed to lead the trains through snow areas. Any high speed ACs that are available will help timekeeping.

Sam1

To describe Amtrak as the worst run organization in the world is quite an indictment.  It is a bit over the top.

Thank you, Sam1. My wife and I do not travel as much as we would like, but in the last three years We have taken a trip a year, traveling coast to coast and back (two of the trips included a crossing of Canada by VIA). We have encountered a variety of service personnel and operatng conditions (trains running late because of needed trackwork, etc.) We feel that we cannot blame Amtrak for circumstances beyond Amtrak's control--you cannot shovel snow into the water tanks on the cars, and there are no herds of bison roaming the plains along the railroad which can provide meat for the diner.

Twenty-one years ago, we rode the Starlight from Los Angeles to Seattle. After we left Klamath Falls , we stopped by Upper Klamath Lake, and went back to the station because a freight had gotten on the ground in one of the Cascade tunnels. Amtrak paid for each passenger to send a message concerning the delay. During the day, we moved from Klamath Falls to Chemult (where the Steward bought enough food so that dinner could be served in the diner), and on up to a pass track not far from the beginning of the ascent of the Cascades. Sleeper passengers did not have to pay for their dinner. We were ten hours late arriving in Seattle, but our only complaint was that our porter did not make enough noise to wake us in time to be ready to detrain immediately on arrival.

For the information of anyone concerned with hours of operation, both operating crews were outlawed, but received Federal permission to keep working (most of their time had been spent in waiting, and I am sure that they were relaxing) until we met the Westbound train, since there was no other way to bring relief crews to the train. When the conductor walked through the diner duirng our dinner (with his hat properly in his hand), I asked him if he were going to outlawed, and he told me that he already was outlawed.\

We made our connection in Seattle.

Johnny

Deggesty

For the information of anyone concerned with hours of operation, both operating crews were outlawed, but received Federal permission to keep working (most of their time had been spent in waiting, and I am sure that they were relaxing) until we met the Westbound train, since there was no other way to bring relief crews to the train

How is that accom;plished and can it still be done today? I have often wondered about that and had hoped that it was possible.?;

blue streak 1

Deggesty

For the information of anyone concerned with hours of operation, both operating crews were outlawed, but received Federal permission to keep working (most of their time had been spent in waiting, and I am sure that they were relaxing) until we met the Westbound train, since there was no other way to bring relief crews to the train

How is that accom;plished and can it still be done today? I have often wondered about that and had hoped that it was possible.?;

 

Johnny

Railroad managers make the decision that the situation qualifies for the "emergency" exceptions in the Hours of Service Act.  They may have talked to FRA (to prevent later second-guessing) but they aren't required to do so.