What do you think about MTH HO products? Half of my friends are very happy, but the other half, no.
davidmbedardDavid B
David B
Yes, David. I agree. Just like MRC decoders.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
While I largely agree with David and Rich, I will say this, if you use DCC you may well be very happy with an MTH product. If you run on DC you will be very unhappy.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL While I largely agree with David and Rich, I will say this, if you use DCC you may well be very happy with an MTH product. If you run on DC you will be very unhappy. Sheldon
Not too likely, MTH locos with DCC are about as limited as Broadway Limited sound locos are on DC. To fully utilize the features of the proprietary DCS decoder you need the proprietary MTH DCS control system. Supported and available to NO ONE ELSE in the industry.
At least there's NMRA standards for DCC and DC control.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
First, some history:
MTH is still largely an O-gauge company. Their products are pretty well respected there, and they have quite a line of models. They have only recently moved into HO, and have a small number of models which generally get good reviews. All of their HO stuff is at the top end of the price scale relative to other manufacturers.
Almost all HO equipment is designed to run either on DC or on DCC. DC is the old standard - power from a direct current supply, direction determined by polarity, and speed determined by track voltage. DCC is Digital Command Control. It is an NMRA standard. All DCC control systems will work with all DCC locomotives, regardless of manufacturers.
MTH has chosen to go with its own proprietary control system, DCS. You can not run a DCC engine on a DCS system, so, if you have a DCS system, you must buy your engines from MTH. The newer DCS engines have a "dual-mode" decoder, which will respond to either DCS or DCC. DCS engines will run on DC, with some limitations. (Again, thanks for the clarification, Randy.) There are features of the DCS engines which can NOT be activated with DCC.
Now, back to the present day. MTH is introducing a number of new engines for HO every few months. They are all DCS-equipped. Unlike some other manufacturers, they don't offer a DC option.
To their great credit, they have announced the "Little Joe" or EF-4 electric locomotive. Nobody else makes these at the present time, so I was impressed that they would actually do this, since most of their engines have been popular locomotive models produced in abundance by other companies. (Wikipedia's article on the Little Joe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Joe_(electric_locomotive) ). If I ran catenary on my layout, I would seriously consider one of these for myself. At the same time, I would rather buy one from Walthers or Atlas if they were available.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
The MTH locos also run on plain DC. They need way more than the standard 12 volts to reach top speed though - and that's not like at 12 volts it runs a realistic top speed and the 'true' top speed is turbo speed. Check any of the recent reviews. You can;t control any of the sounds in DC, like you can with QSI/Blueline decoders - you just get the basic chuffs or motor sound.
Just what features of the MTH locos won't work on a standard DCC system. If it is just advanced features, that is of little concern to me since I don't do access those with my current DCC fleet.
I would prefer to buy a pure DCC loco, but if what I want is only available through MTH, what choice is there. Specifically, I have been wanting to obtain the BLI Dreyfuss Hudson since they announced it 2-3 years ago. It's been so long I've lost track. It was announced that they would finally deliver it in December but so far, I haven't been able to locate it. I have been wanting to give them my money for this loco ever since they announced it but apparently, they don't want my money. I think they would rather I buy it from MTH. If BLI doesn't deliver this product this month, as far as I'm concerned, they will cease to exist. I will buy the Dreyfuss Hudson from MTH and probably get their Empire State Hudson eventually as well. I will never buy another BLI product. There is no excuse for the foot dragging that has been going on at BLI. What difference does it make how good a product you make if you can't deliver it?
I'll never understand why companies announce products that aren't even close to going into production. I remember when Walthers announced their 130' turntable. The delivery date kept getting pushed back 3 months at a time. I think they finally delivered it two years after it was first promised. Here's a suggestion for all companies. Don't announce a product until you're ready to put it into production. All you do with premature announcements is anger your customer base.
Sorry about the rant.
It's all an attempt to prevent having a warehouse full of product that no one wants because everyone who wanted one already has one. BLI made this mistake in their early production. Now they seem to only build when there are enough pre-orders, plus a few, which they instantly dump at half off through Factory Direct Trains. The stock at FDT never lasts long, so I suspect when they get there, there's only the few extras they made left.
Eithe3r way, it's all a huge pain for the buyer, and you can't please everyone. But given that tooling for a new product is extremely expensive, I don;t see this changing anytime soon. Do you know Atlas does the same thing? I'm signed up for their newsletter and it will state right in there to place your order for a new product by a certain date if you expect to get one - and that's still months out from the actual delivery of said product.
In return, we're getting more specific products, not generics painted for every railroad that ever was.
As for MTH, you can access nearly all the sounds (if your DCC system goes to F28), but what you can;t do it much if any programming - even basic stuff liek address and momentum. You can't remap functions (so that if you only go to F12, you can put useful sounds in the first 12 and move the useless junk to the higher ones). I'm not sure you can even change the address without using a DCS system You can't adjust the settings for the smoke.
When it comes to product I want vs a completely incompatible proprietary control system - I'll wait until someone using STANDARDS make the model. If Mike Wolf thinks DCS is SOOOO awesome, why don;t they sell standalone decoders or license it to others to also build DCS compatible products? Oh yeah, they'd rather wait til someone else adds features to their products and then sue them.
I have been reading this thread with interest, because I believe the comments demonstrate a failure of the organization set up to handle such issues, the NMRA. Now, before you start on the song about I am bashing the NMRA, I am a long time member, I have the MMR certificates, I stay active with the local NMRA groups. But I recall, as an also garden railroader besides being an HO indoors modeler, that for years we tried to get standards set for the G gauge, and really failed to bring the two sides together to agree. The only way we have as individual modelers to help bring order is to have a "lobby group" that comes up with workable standards that are supported by the vast majority.
DCC standards are set by the NMRA, but MTH has chosen to design and market a system that doesn't meet those standards. At this point, the NMRA has "no teeth showing" to force MTH to follow standards, and Mike and his group are in effect thumbing their noses at the NMRA and the modeling community. I believe he has the right to build products outside the NMRA standards and to sell those products to make money, but, before we beat our righteous *** bones in indignation, I would point out that he is obviously selling product and making more and doesn't care one whit for the NMRA, and if in my opinion, if the NMRA collapses, so does the hobby. the NMRA does have some life, even though it is not often shown, it has some teeth, just not baring them, but, the body is too dead to take the lead they purport to have in the hobby.
So we live with what we have today. Personally I won't buy any product from MTH, but my one vote is pretty meager against those who do buy and then complain about the product. Just my thoughts.
Bob
Oh lovely. I just visited the FDT website. The ETA is January 2010. Why do they bother putting a year on it? Cue Buddy Holly, "That'll be the day...".
pastorbobDCC standards are set by the NMRA, but MTH has chosen to design and market a system that doesn't meet those standards.
I agree that MTH is doing the hobby a disservice by continuing to build a non-compliant control system. But, the problem is still a relatively new one, at least as a "practical" issue. As a "theoretical" problem, it's been around for quite a while, but it's only been in the last few months that MTH has made it clear that they plan to be a significant player in the HO-scale engine game.
I was looking at the review of MTH's SD70 in this months Model Railroader. I thought it was very indicative of the market that MTH has announced a future free upgrade to provide more functionality for DCC users. MR, to their credit, has consistently pointed out the "missing" features when trying to run these MTH engines on DCC.
In the long run, I think MTH will give in to the economics of the large installed base of DCC users in the HO scale community. They haven't yet given up on trying to get HO users to buy DCS systems, but they will not be a big player in the engine market until they start equipping their engines with decoders which are fully DCC compatable. At that point, of course, they will be fully compliant with the NMRA standards, even if their decoders also support DCS.
We are all indebted to Lenz for DCC, by the way. Most of the NMRA's standards came from the original Lenz design, and Lenz gave that to the NMRA so standards could be set.
jecorbett,MTH's DCS locos do not have Advanced Consisting, which is the basic method used for running Multiple Units together on all non-Digitrax DCC systems. This is basic stuff. Advanced Consisting information is kept on the decoder, so if you consist locos at home, they will stil be consisted even if you take them to another layout. Digitrax uses UniVersal Consisting, which keeps the consisting info in the command station. If you consist locos at home, they will not be consisted anywhere else.
MTH DCS locos cannot be read by a DCC system. If you want to know what your decoder is set at, you are out of luck. Say you lose the address for the loco... With DCC you can scan it and find out what you programmed it as. With DCS, you can't...unless you buy their DCS system (and maybe not even then...I don't know if they can even read their own decoders). Again, this is basic stuff that all but the worst DCC decoders can do.
Other features that are common on DCC are not available to DCS owners. You cannot speed match an MTH loco...ever. It runs as it runs and there is no option available. You cannot re-map any functions at all. Say you want to have a sound effect that's in the 20's relocated so that you can use it somewhere in the 1-10 range... That can't be done with DCS. Don't like how loud the air compressor on your MTH DCS loco is? Want to make the horn louder or the bell softer? Forget about it with DCS...they don't allow that. Want to change the horn to more accurately model your prototype? Nope, sorry, you are stuck forever with whatever single horn that MTH gives you for that model. And, what if you like DCS so much that you bought their system and you want to convert all your DCC locos into DCS locos? Sorry, you can't do that, either. They don't offer their DCS decoders for sale.
In fact, MTH and DCS is all about denying the modeler options. In a modeling world used to the Burger King method of "Have It Your Way", MTH is a throwback to the old school McDonald's mode of pickles, onions, mustard and ketchup on every burger...no matter what. Even if you hate mustard, you eat it or go hungry.
As for BLI and delayed release dates... Surely you don't think that BLI does this on purpose? They are in this game to make models, not to sit on new announcements and never come out with them. Obviously, they mis-calculated the interest in the NYC Dreyfuss Hudson, They thought that NYC modelers would want it and they apparently do not. If the pre-orders do not support actual production, then why make it? Are they to blame for this lack of interest in the NYC?
Or do you think they should make everything they annouce no matter how much real interest there is? How long do you think they will be in business if they do that? Brass importers do this sort of thing as well. Overland once announced an Amtrak F40PH "Cabbage"...they canceled it after they only got 2, yes, 2 pre-orders. Should they have made them, and darn the consequences?
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
jecorbett Oh lovely. I just visited the FDT website. The ETA is January 2010. Why do they bother putting a year on it? Cue Buddy Holly, "That'll be the day...".
John, all of BLI's production items have been slipped by about three months. This was alluded to on their site in early November. They announced a second run of their fabulous Y6b Mallets back in July, and they are now moving out to the distributors. The Q2 was supposed to be available in November, but I figure late Jan may be a bit optimistic yet. The UP 4-12-2 was supposed to be shipping about now, and I think you'll find it available next March/April. The Dreyfus Hudson still seems to be in the developmental stage as they don't show a close-to-production example with paint and details on their site,so it is likely to be out in the late spring at the earliest.
People posting to the BLI forum have been clamouring for more Y's, and perhaps BLI was able to swing it quickly with the idea that it would improve their liquidity (bank balance) in the near term and help them to stay robust in dealing with their supplier(s). This is just a hunch....no evidence.
-Crandell
Paul3MTH's DCS locos do not have Advanced Consisting, which is the basic method used for running Multiple Units together on all non-Digitrax DCC systems.
From the MR review of the SD70 by MTH:
"An MTH representative informed me that the company will soon be offering a free user-installed upgrade for the SD70ACe. This will allow you to set speed tables, remap functions, and advance consist the locomotives using DCC. These upgraded electronics will also be included in future MTH HO locomotives."
This indicates to me that MTH understands it has a weak product with respect to DCC compatability, and is working to change that. It's a good start. But, there's no information about engines other than the SD70, or when these upgrades will be applied to new engines. Also, what about engines already in people's hands? Will they get a free upgrade? (Admittedly, Advanced Consisting isn't something you do a lot with steam engines, although some do.)
In considering a DCC system, I have avoided the MTH version for all the reasons already stated. Likewise, this redirects my money away from their HO locomotives - that and that butt-ugly coupler they have adopted. Exclusivity is not always synonymous with market share leader.
selector jecorbett Oh lovely. I just visited the FDT website. The ETA is January 2010. Why do they bother putting a year on it? Cue Buddy Holly, "That'll be the day...". John, all of BLI's production items have been slipped by about three months. This was alluded to on their site in early November. They announced a second run of their fabulous Y6b Mallets back in July, and they are now moving out to the distributors. The Q2 was supposed to be available in November, but I figure late Jan may be a bit optimistic yet. The UP 4-12-2 was supposed to be shipping about now, and I think you'll find it available next March/April. The Dreyfus Hudson still seems to be in the developmental stage as they don't show a close-to-production example with paint and details on their site,so it is likely to be out in the late spring at the earliest. People posting to the BLI forum have been clamouring for more Y's, and perhaps BLI was able to swing it quickly with the idea that it would improve their liquidity (bank balance) in the near term and help them to stay robust in dealing with their supplier(s). This is just a hunch....no evidence. -Crandell
Sorry, Crandell, but I've seen this movie too many times before. I am pretty sure when they first announced it on their website, it was listed as Coming Soon. I waited patiently and nothing happened. Trainworld continued to list it in their ads but everytime I called, they never had it of course. Apparently they made the mistake of believing BLI also.
If, as you say, the Dreyfus Hudson is still in the developmental stage, why did they lie again and announce a December release? Why have they lied again about a January 2010 release? That's what infuriates me and what I find inexcusable. If they don't have it, they shouldn't advertise it. I find this sort of practice inexcusable and it is why I will never buy another BLI product. If they sold these now for a dime a dozen, I would save my dime. If they go out of business, I won't shed one tear. I might even get a chuckle out of it.
My OP was focused to the quality of the products, in HO. We know that MTH want that everybody buy their DCS system, so when DCC modelers buy a MTH, knows the narrow scope of the model. I want to know about running way, sounds quality, details, lights conforming NMRA rules, customer service, etc. Thanks everybody.
Paul3 As for BLI and delayed release dates... Surely you don't think that BLI does this on purpose? They are in this game to make models, not to sit on new announcements and never come out with them. Obviously, they mis-calculated the interest in the NYC Dreyfuss Hudson, They thought that NYC modelers would want it and they apparently do not. If the pre-orders do not support actual production, then why make it? Are they to blame for this lack of interest in the NYC? Or do you think they should make everything they annouce no matter how much real interest there is? How long do you think they will be in business if they do that? Brass importers do this sort of thing as well. Overland once announced an Amtrak F40PH "Cabbage"...they canceled it after they only got 2, yes, 2 pre-orders. Should they have made them, and darn the consequences? Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
To answer you last question first, yes, I think they should make everything they announce. If they aren't going to make it, don't announce it, or at the very least, put a disclaimer on the announcement that the release is dependent on customer demand. Above all, don't announce a release date if you don't intend to release it. Just be honest with your customers. I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation.
As for all the issues you addressed with the DCS based locos, I'm not utilizing any of those functions now with my DCC fleet other than MUing and I don't see any reason I would want to MU this particular locomotive as long as it can pull a reasonable consist up my 1.5% grade. I've never tried to speed match or re-map any functions so again, these are non-issues with me.
In short, I see no reason to wait any longer for BLI to make good on their promise to deliver a Dreyfus Hudson to the market when there is a competitor who has beat them to the punch and offers me a suitable alternative. To me, the drawback with the MTH model is its steep price, but if BLI isn't going to deliver what they promised, what difference does it make what price it will sell for.
PS. I used to work for MacDonald's way back in the 1960s when the burgers were premade but even then you could get one to order if you were willing to wait. Now they keep the cooked paddies in a warming drawer and you can order your burger any way you want without the extra wait.
Hi from Belgium,
Even if the MTH locos are surely fine running models and handsome looking one, I am afraid by their policy.
WHY?
Because they are outside the sandards we are looking for since so many times with their DCS control system.
NMRA with in the beginning the LENZ company have figth togheter to create a good standard for any DCC system, and as far we could see these standards are very good and far from what we expected really.
With all the features the system offer, and the new ones coming, we are often surpassed by them..
Dont' forget, it's the first time we have since 50 years, a complete interchangeable system.
A DCC loco with a Soundtrax decoder can run with a Lenz system without any problems for example. By this way you could take one of your loco to a friend layout DCC equiped whithout any trouble.
MTH tried to impose a system, it's their rights anyway but it's dangerous because it's a "torpedo" in the NMRA standard; and in fact in our standards.
So a good thing to do to preserve this so fine standard we are so many to use today, is to not accept the products outside this wonderful standard, DCC, we were waiting for a so long time.
Here in Europe we have know such a disaster whit the Marklin system which had impose a standard whith AC current during years which was obsolete whit all the others.
Marc
jecorbettSorry, Crandell, but I've seen this movie too many times before. I am pretty sure when they first announced it on their website, it was listed as Coming Soon. I waited patiently and nothing happened. Trainworld continued to list it in their ads but everytime I called, they never had it of course. Apparently they made the mistake of believing BLI also.
I seem to remember when you would see announcements about new computer systems---back in the 1980's --with the infamous phrase---Real Soon Now.
Don't you just love it?
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
I don't think there is anything dangerous about having an alternative system to DCC. DCS is to DCC what MacIntosh is to the PC. The PC platform with the Microsoft operating system became the defacto standard in the early 1980s but MacIntosh offered consumers a viable alternative. Innovations for the Mac forced Microsoft to respond. Competition is generally a good thing. It did require software developers to create products for both systems and some opted to only offer their product for the PC, but most created versions for both platforms.
I see having an alternative to DCC as a positive. Having some compatability between the two is a bonus. Ultimately, market forces will decide if DCS survives as an alternative to DCC. It can only be a positive to the consumer to have a choice.
Alternatives are nice if they work. I remember in the late 80's when CTC 80 and beyond became a popular control system. The problem was it was owned by one source, so other companies developed alternates. I used Dynatrol during that period, nice system, expensive, limited, but had good support. In 1999, I purchased decoders from Dynatrol that were multi user, Dynatrol or DCC using NCE components. I ended up in 2000 moving strictly to NCE DCC, and lamenting the financial bath I had to take on all the dynatrol. I actually have a couple of those old decoders still in use. But the point is, nothing that was Dynatrol was compatible with the other alternatives and vice versa, so I was stuck with one manufacturer and supplier at a higher price.
But, that was just time moving on.
jecorbett I see having an alternative to DCC as a positive. Having some compatability between the two is a bonus. Ultimately, market forces will decide if DCS survives as an alternative to DCC. It can only be a positive to the consumer to have a choice.
I agree that "competition improves the breed." No doubt, it's important to keep all the manufacturers on their toes. But, I see the DCC-DCS dichotomy more like the VHS-Betamax competition. The tapes were totally incompatable, forcing retailers to maintain two sets of inventory. Until recently, DCS-equipped engines wouldn't run on DCC at all, and the reverse is still true. Like VHS, the DCC system became a standard, and other manufacturers were allowed to use it. Like Sony's Betamax, the DCS system is available from only one source, keeping prices high and reducing innovation.
He who does not learn from history is condemned to repeat it.
I'll try to answer your question by stating that I have 3 engines from MTH, the GS4,4-12 2 and the new SD70ace that I just got. I have the Digitrax Zepher DCC system with the 402D controller so I can access 28 of the functions. I am pleased with all my engines except for the fact that I cannot change all of the cv's but they still run great with the ones I can controll. They all run great right out of the box and have some functions that I will probably not use that often, like the smoke which looks great but I usually run with it turned off , the cab chatter is neat at times but I find it to be a distraction at times. I just want to have good sound and detail with good running qualities which so far they provide. Please don't think I'm a MTH train house cheerleader but these are just engines that I happen to like and want. Now with that said!
Yes it does bug me that they have cv's that I can't change and I hope that MTH either abandons DCS or makes it completely compatible with the DCC standards that the NMRA has established. If MTH can add something above the DCC standards great but not if it tries to change those standards. I am not about to go out and buy a DCS system just so I can run MTH engines, so I will live with this choice and hope that MTH will make changes to his system to make it more compatable, like being able to consist with other makers engines!
I just want to have fun and enjoy running trains. No matter who makes them just as long as they run decent!
I hope my post doesn't offend anyone because I know that there is a lot of animosity toward this subject and I value the opinions of many of the people on this forum but this is just my experiences!
Jim
chessiecat I just want to have fun and enjoy running trains. No matter who makes them just as long as they run decent! I hope my post doesn't offend anyone because I know that there is a lot of animosity toward this subject and I value the opinions of many of the people on this forum but this is just my experiences! Jim
An earlier poster stated that at one time he didn't think you could even change the address of an MTH loco and he wasn't sure if that was still the case or not. From what you said, that doesn't sound like it is still an issue, if it ever was. Can you confirm that.
My attitude is much like yours. I want three things from my locos. I want them the run good, look good, and sound good. The rest is superfulous to me. I've never changed a CV on any of my present DCC fleet so if I can't do it on a MTH, no big deal. I would have no problem buying a MTH loco as long as I can do the basic stuff without a lot of hassle.
Link about DCS VS DCC.
http://www.ulrichmodels.com/prostores/DCC_Topics/MTH_DCS_and_DCC.pdf
One on line DCC dealer with his own Yahoo DCC group smiles all the way to the bank because he replaces DCS decoders with DCC decoders.
If people would do their home work first, many would not but the MTH or would know what they are getting.
I have heard quite often similar complaints from people who bought the Bachmann EZ Command.
jecorbett chessiecat I just want to have fun and enjoy running trains. No matter who makes them just as long as they run decent! I hope my post doesn't offend anyone because I know that there is a lot of animosity toward this subject and I value the opinions of many of the people on this forum but this is just my experiences! Jim An earlier poster stated that at one time he didn't think you could even change the address of an MTH loco and he wasn't sure if that was still the case or not. From what you said, that doesn't sound like it is still an issue, if it ever was. Can you confirm that. My attitude is much like yours. I want three things from my locos. I want them the run good, look good, and sound good. The rest is superfulous to me. I've never changed a CV on any of my present DCC fleet so if I can't do it on a MTH, no big deal. I would have no problem buying a MTH loco as long as I can do the basic stuff without a lot of hassle.
Hope this helps.
jecorbett I would prefer to buy a pure DCC loco, but if what I want is only available through MTH, what choice is there. Specifically, I have been wanting to obtain the BLI Dreyfuss Hudson since they announced it 2-3 years ago. It's been so long I've lost track. It was announced that they would finally deliver it in December but so far, I haven't been able to locate it. I have been wanting to give them my money for this loco ever since they announced it but apparently, they don't want my money. I think they would rather I buy it from MTH. If BLI doesn't deliver this product this month, as far as I'm concerned, they will cease to exist. I will buy the Dreyfuss Hudson from MTH and probably get their Empire State Hudson eventually as well. I will never buy another BLI product. There is no excuse for the foot dragging that has been going on at BLI. What difference does it make how good a product you make if you can't deliver it?
I have the MTH Empire State Express and have no complaints. The detailing rivals brass. Excellent sound, excellent runner, and the best smoke unit in HO. I'm thinking of getting their Dreyfuss Hudson as well. Both of these models have driver lights, I am not sure if the BLI version will have this. My advice, buy the MTH version to satisfy your craving for these streamlined NYC engines. If the BLI version ever comes out, you can always get that one too. If money is an issue, lets say you are not happy with the MTH version later on, you may lose some profit, but just sell it and use the money to buy the BLI version when it comes out. Of course, once you actually hold the MTH version in your hands and touch that real coal load, I can't imagine you ever wanting to part with it. Thats how I feel about mine.
Now, as far products being delayed, MTH is probably just as guilty as BLI in this area. The passenger cars for instance for the Powhatan Arrow were supposed to come out October 30, but now looking at May 2010 is optimistic. Same with the Daylight cars, and there will be probably even further delays with the NYC cars that go with the Dreyfuss or ESE hudsons. Next Christmas hopefully?
Anyway, my advice, buy the Empire State Express. I don't think you will regret it.
BLI's delivery foo paas are not near as bad as some brass companies. There are models that have been on the "comming soon" page for over 5 years with no models yet. The current state of the economy has made things very fluidic in the hobby. Companys are going to push models forward that are getting the most preorders. Broadway is well known for PRR engines and N&W stuff. I think those seem to sell the best for them it seems. There can also be unforseen issues that crop up during final preproduction. Then we have the ongoing legal issues between BLI and MTH. There will never be an MTH model on my railroad till they conform to the standards out there. If they want to add more "toys" like automatic couplers that require you to couple up at 22 scale miles per hour, go for it. I prefer not to be rerailing freight cars after slamming into them at 22smph!! I know if we did that when I worked for the NS, I would have gotten a stearn talking to by the trainmaster. MTH is very good at pushing the envelope in technology. I do like the fact they use diecast metal for thier steam engines, something I wish BLI would do. My PRR I1sa decapod is very slippery, but if it was all diecast, it would no doubt pull much better. We speak with our wallets, as long as MTH contiunes to sell models, things will not change to quickly. Hopefully BLI gets thier production schedule straightened out. I remember Bachmann used to have this issue. The talked about the first Spectrum GE Dash 8's for what....2 years before we saw them. So this is not a new thing. MTH shows off new models for 2010 before christmas 2009, this is how its done in O scale, and you still dont know if it will get canceld from lack of preorders or postponed till 2011. Happens all the time in O scale and not from just MTH. Also keep in mind there are only a couple of factorys that make this stuff in china, so each company must wait in line for production line time to produce a run of a model. Here is to a Merry Christmas and I pray a better year in 2010. Now lets go run some trains!
LHS mechanic and geniune train and antique garden tractor nut case!
Most of this thread has discussed DCC and DCS but no one has said anything about quality. I purchased the MTH HO Berkshire 765 in November and began using at Christmas. Having previously purchased several DCC locomotives (mostly BLI) I have to say that the looks, sounds, and operation of this MTH product blows away anything I've ever owned. I was stunned at the realism of this product. Based on sounds alone, you would swear that the real locomotive is running through your house. I made almost immediate plans to add the 1225 and the 4449 to this collection. It didn't take long to change my mind. I would like to address some issues that I have had. For starters, the drawbar coupler is attached to two rather frail wires. Given the swinging movement of the drawbar through curves, it took maybe two weeks for one of the wires to break. After determining the problem and soldering, it didn't take too long for the other one to break which happened about a month into very light use. I would think an obvious flaw would have come out while testing this product. Now there is another issue, the locomotive is dead. It almost seems as if there is some sort of a short. Occasionally the lights will come on (although not being controlled by the cab) and sometimes when track power is applied the loco will just turn on and run in reverse. (once again, through no control of the cab) None of the authorized MTH service facilities in my immediate area have been trained to work on the MTH HO products so I'm left to having to contact MTH directly. It has been over a week now since my first attempt at contacting them and I have yet to receive a response. So to sum it up, I have a 450 dollar item that has two months of limited use and I can't get it fixed. Sounds a little to me like a Lionel HO challenger that I own that stopped running for no apparent reason and Lionel refuses to fix it because it's out of production. Just my opinion, but perhaps these companies should stick to what they do best and that's O-scale.