General Discussion

How good were the headlights on steamers, I remember as a kid seeing plenty of headlights but never from the cab, did they actually light up ahead ? I wonder now what was the use, they couldn't stop if they wanted to, maybe it was to see what you were going to hit. How efficient were these lights, I can't remember seeing a loco with it's light off, even in the day time.

 In my neck of the woods, steamers in the 1940's and '50s never ran with their headlights on in the daytime.  The headlights back then were incandescent bulbs that were much brighter than an automobile headlight because of their much larger reflector, but not nearly as bright as today's diesel locomotive lights.  I doubt they illuminated anything further away than perhaps 1/4 mile, and then simply because they were so much higher up than an automobile headlight.

cacole:

 In my neck of the woods, steamers in the 1940's and '50s never ran with their headlights on in the daytime.  The headlights back then were incandescent bulbs that were much brighter than an automobile headlight because of their much larger reflector, but not nearly as bright as today's diesel locomotive lights.  I doubt they illuminated anything further away than perhaps 1/4 mile, and then simply because they were so much higher up than an automobile headlight.

The Butler:

cacole:

 In my neck of the woods, steamers in the 1940's and '50s never ran with their headlights on in the daytime.  The headlights back then were incandescent bulbs that were much brighter than an automobile headlight because of their much larger reflector, but not nearly as bright as today's diesel locomotive lights.  I doubt they illuminated anything further away than perhaps 1/4 mile, and then simply because they were so much higher up than an automobile headlight.

I have always wondered when it became mandatory for the headlight to be on all the time.  With less ambient light sixty plus years ago, could you figure a little light went further than it does today?   

I can't help with the date when it may have become mandatory, which may have been long after the practice became universal.  My understanding, which I cannot support by any hard evidence, is that the clean running diesels were a lot less visible than a steam locomotive, which often had some sort of smoke plume.  Turning on the diesel headlight in daytime was an attempt to enhance visibility at grade crossings.  Of course nothing helps when a motorist doesn't bother to look, and even ditch lights aren't solving that problem.

John

......My opinion of course is only from the fan side.....Steam engine headlights perhaps had a rather good capability to shine far down the track with the reflector designed to project the "pencil" shaft light concentrated to a narrow area.  Power should not have been a problem with the steam powered generators to supply the power.

The 40's and 50's wasn't quite the "dark ages" in lighting, but of course no way near the technology it is now.  But as an example, automobiles were equiped with sealed beam headlights about 1940....I'm not saying steam engines were using that, but I do remember as a steam engine would be approaching a crossing the headlight was impressive.

Edit:  I don't remember of steamers back in the 40's using headlights in the daytime either.

Modelcar:

......My opinion of course is only from the fan side.....Steam engine headlights perhaps had a rather good capability to shine far down the track with the reflector designed to project the "pencil" shaft light concentrated to a narrow area.  Power should not have been a problem with the steam powered generators to supply the power.

The 40's and 50's wasn't quite the "dark ages" in lighting, but of course no way near the technology it is now.  But as an example, automobiles were equiped with sealed beam headlights about 1940....I'm not saying steam engines were using that, but I do remember as a steam engine would be approaching a crossing the headlight was impressive.

Edit:  I don't remember of steamers back in the 40's using headlights in the daytime either.

 

I never meant to imply the technology wasn't good back then.

I can't remember ever seeing a moving locomotive with its headlight off, from the 1940's, onward, be it a steam, electric, or Diesel, in the US or Canada..

BNSFwatcher:

I can't remember ever seeing a moving locomotive with its headlight off, from the 1940's, onward, be it a steam, electric, or Diesel, in the US or Canada..

Here is a nice image showing a T1 Duplex, with lots of people aboard the consist, at track speed.  No headlight.

http://prrsteam.mrdek.com/t_6110.html

Yet, looking through the many images on rr-fallenflags.org, it seems that the majority, heavy majority, of trains apparently out on the road have headlights on.  So, it is a good question, and the one exception here is somewhat of a puzzle.

-Crandell

B&O 1953 Rule Book

I've posted this same questions several times in recent years as part of other related threads. It is good to see the question made it out into a thread of it's own.

What I can say is that I read in a very old CPR ETT that steam engine headlights were required to be able to light up to either 800 or 850 feet ahead, I can't remember which, to be considered functional according to the rules of the time.

In Canada, at least, it seems to have become mandatory for engines to have their headlights on in the daytime sometime after 1953. My father talked about this once and he couldn't remember the date except it was sometime in the 1953-56 period when we were living at Hatton, SK.

I wondered once if it was a government mandated thing, or was it done on a RR by RR basis. This B&O document makes me think maybe each RR decided on it's own.

I await more insight into this question.

Bruce

I went to the Canadian Pacific Historical Association the confirm what I had said in the above post.

On page 20 of the ETT for the Alberta Division Time Table No. 62, September 25, 1938, it states,

Board of Railway Commissioners General Order No 522, dated November 9, 1932

That every railway company subject to the legislative authority of the Parliament of Canada be, and is hereby, required to equip its locomotives used in road service, between sunset and sunrise, with headlights which will enable persons with normal vision in the cab of a locomotive, under normal weather conditions, to see a dark object the size of a man for a distance of 800 feet or more ahead of the locomotive. Such headlight must be maintained in good condition.

I doubt the technical spec's for US RR's was much different, since they all used the same type of equipment. From what I've seen, that was the rule until daytime headlight use was required in the 1950's. But I still have no idea where to find the actual date.

Bruce

.

I realized after I made my last post that I should have checked an employee timetable from the 1950's on the CPHA website.

In the Pacific Region - Alberta District Timetable No. 82, September 24, 1950, on page 20, the rule for sunset to sunrise use is still in effect. What I don't know though is why the effective of the rule was changed to November 9, 1933.

Bruce

A sampling of rule books I have show as late as the 1940s, most used the wording "by night" only for display of the head light.  The latest book to use "by night" I have is a Consolidated Code edition of 1945.  Rule books I have after that date use the wording "by day and night."

The only books that I have in sequence are for the Rock Island.  Before 1940 they were issued just for themselves and affiliated lines.  In 1940 and later, they used the Uniform Code, as did a few other US railroads.  The 1940 edition uses "by night."  The next edition was in 1950 and "by day and night" was used.  Within that time rules could be changed without having to issue a new edition, so it would be hard to say exactly when the rule was changed.  It does appear to give credence that the rule change coincided with the coming of the diesel and waning of steam.

Jeff    

Thanks everyone for all the information.  What I gather is steam locos were not required to have there headlight on during the day for most of the steam era.  Also, the lights were to be bright enough to see a man at eight hundred feet. 

I just finished watching Trains and Locomotives featuring the Blue Mountain & Reading's 4-6-2 number 425 pulling excursion runs in New Jersey during the mid nineteen eighties.  In some of the footage, the loco's headlight appears to be off.  I can't believe a train being run on NJT trackage in that time frame would not have it's headlight on.  This makes me wonder, could certain lighting conditions cause the reflector type headlight to appear off when being filmed?

On a different thought, were the rules on headlight usage the same for electrics; i.e. Pennsylvania's GG1's, New Haven's Jets, or the North Shore's Electroliners?