Steam & Preservation

Could someone PLEASE start a program to run J 611. I can't stand the fact that it's fading away in a museum. YOU, I MEAN YOU, HAVE TO HELP. If you can't, tell someone who can.

J 611 is currently store at the VMT in Roanoke, VA.

Cars for an excursion can be found at http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/

PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!

Help with what?

611 was put out to pasture because the NS was no longer interested in running her.  At the same time they sold all the specialized spare parts needed to maintain her - for scrap.  In the years since, I don't doubt that they've long since been converted to saw blades and mattress springs.

Then there's the minor detail of having a place to run a stiff, long-wheelbase locomotive.  Since the demise of steam there have been subtle changes in track geometry that make it better for diesels and not as good for steam.  Granted that track utilization is down for the moment, but it will probably pick back up to a level that finding a gap in a busy schedule may get to be an adventure.

How about people to rebuild and maintain her?  Those with the necessary skills are mostly punching the timeclock in God's Big Backshop.  The few still on earth are all plenty busy working on locos that are still in steam or being prepped for use by certain dates on operating railroads.

Last, but hardly least, Ton$ and ton$ of $$$$!!  And very little possibility of EVER making enough to repay the base cost - or even cover ordinary operating expenses.  Since the Obama High Speed Rail plan doesn't include locomotives that can only cruise at 90mph...

Don't get me wrong.  I would LOVE to see 611 back in operation.  I would also like a (fill in most improbable dream here.)

Chuck

thats too much doom and gloom perception.  As far as rigid wheelbase goes it has plenty of equilization for uneven track. Unlike our model counterparts with stiff unflexing wheelbases.

And for specialized parts, its always reproduceable, and for money, start passing the hats around, ready to make some donations?

I would do it myself, but I'm still in school without a job.

Is that 1218 below your name?

Check this out!

http://www.pbase.com/garymullis/image/119538376

  Wow Jim thats pretty cool! Mr Link would love that shot I am guessing Gary Mullis is a fan of his work?

  As for friends of the 611. It would be tough but not impossible.I dont get the track geometry deal. If that were the case no steam would run. Plus most of the tracks I have run on have never been changed  I think that might ahve been a piece railroads used to keep steam specials off their lines.

  Friends of the 261 are looking for a loco now, but I dont know if 611 would fit the bill or if they were even interested in it.Might be a dream for you but never say never I guess.

I think the point about the geometry is that most of the elevation has been taken out of the curves.

Glad to see so much enthusiasum" href="BLOCKED SCRIPTinsertSmiley('');">

NSdreamer:

I would do it myself, but I'm still in school without a job.

Is that 1218 below your name?

I never identified that engine, its a Y6b I think.611 and 1218 are virtually one of a kind engines, the fact NS brought them back to steam is a feat by itself, if it can be done once, it can be done again.

611 stayed in steam as long as it did chiefly because it had been overhauled/rebuilt following a trip down an embankment late in its active career. 

One might also recall the difficulties J611 had when it was in excursion service.  One of the reasons the J was capable of high speed was that the lead and trailing trucks were very tightly sprung (sprung against the trucks swinging right or left).  This rigidity helped hold the locomotive stable at speed, but increased the minimum radius that it would take.  During at least one of the excursions, the J derailed (or caused track damage) at a "Y" where the intent was to turn her.  With the removal of most all turntables and the re-laying of wye tracks to suit diesel needs, the routes where one can effectively run a locomotive such as the J are much more limited than they were.

I was a member of the Virginia Museum of Transportation for 30 years...  from when it was down in Wasena Park until I moved from the area three years ago.  All state funding to the museum dried up years ago and they have really struggled financially.  NS does not provide the support to the museum that it used to.  They have multiple outdoor exhibits that are suffering as a result, and many projects that have stalled.  This is not unusual as the prominence and visibility of railroads in the US has declined.  When I was growing up, virtually everyone had some relative that worked for the railroad, but now.... 

My membership money wasn't enough to recondition a large steam locomotive, nor was the combined membership of the musuem.  While things indeed CAN be done, it would seem unlikely unless some multi-millionaire decides to drop a couple million $ on such a project with virtually no hope of seeing a financial return for the investment.  Fortunately, there are multiple videos of the J in action so one can crank up the audio and enjoy.  My favorite individual scene of the J in action is one where it comes to a complete stall on a grade and then starts again in the  video Steep Steel & Slipping Stalling Steam! (Vol. 1) from Main Line Motion Pictures.

Bill

Because of the expense involved, I would think that the operation of mainline steam excursions is gradually coming to an end.  I keep reading of more steam locomotives of a variety of sizes being taken out of service because the money isn't there to maintain them properly.  Also, the mechanical skills to properly maintain a steam locomotive are also vanishing.  Lack of money and lack of trained personnel are the problem, I'm not sure that there IS an answer.

I agree, lack of money is probably the biggest issue.  There is currently a funding drive to restore the PRR 460 located at the museum in Strasburg PA, this will cost aproximately 255K.   To get a locomotive back to a running status another problem is the manufacturing of parts.  To forge the necessary parts many company's refuse because their expense in altering machinery, etc., just to make one or two parts is not economically sound for them.  If they do agree to make the part this cost obviously is added to the project and now more cost escalation.  The group in Owosso, MI had this problem when the 1225 needed new thermal syphons, eventually they found a provider but from what I was told it was not an easy task.  Sad to say but I think a day will come when we will enjoy most steam locomotives in a cosmetic restoration and on static display. 

There are so many issues facing anyone looking to rebuild and run a steam locomotive... tooling and parts are non-existant, everything basically has to be scratch-built.

Once a loco is up and running, there is almost nowhere to run it as most major roads won't allow steam excursions to use their rails as the liability has become too expensive to insure.

AND from the date a loco is finished it has 1600 operating days before it must be torn down and re-built all over again.

The rebuild takes years... evident in the NKP 765. Rebuilt in the early 1980's, it ran excursion service until 1993 when it's certificate ran out and a re-build was necessary. The shopping (that in the hay-day of steam) would have taken a matter of weeks) was completed in 2007. The locomotive is in "like new" condition, but it took 15 years and about a million dollars.

And the Friends of 765 can't find many places to run her... which will make the next rebuild that much more challenging.

Milwaukee Road 261 has just met this fate.

Steamtown's CP 2317 is due a rebuild, and it is unsure how long it will be before she is again servicable.

Sometimes, during a rebuild, a la PRR 1361 it is found that the original build specs aren't up to current standards and that the entire bioler and crown sheet aren't thick enough and must be reinforced, basically halting the progress.

It all got very difficult after the crown sheet failure and subsequent boiler explosion of fmr CP 1278 on the Gettysburg Scenic Railway in the mid 90's. Railroads stopped seeing only "cute old time PR pieces" and began seeing time-bombs. Federal Regulations got more strict, and many at the time working locomotives have since become static displays.

One of the most interesting steam operations out there was Jerry Jacobson's Ohio Central steam dept. Despite stopping daily tourist trips the OC maintained several locomotives, including 4-8-4 GT 6325, 4-6-2 CP 1293, 2-8-0 #33 (that has passed through so many roads it's hard to tell where it began), and 4-6-0 #1551. At one point all were operational, and were occasionally used in freight duty on the Ohio Central a regional railroad network.

The OC had also purchased Nickel Plate Road 763 for rebuild and return to service, however the sale of the Ohio Central to the Gennessee and Western has halted all operations.

Rumor is that Jacobson is building a private roundhouse facility to house the locomotives...

We shall see.