General Discussion (Model Railroader)

It's possible that that the locos in that first photo actually have black trucks.  That B+W photo is so washed out I couldn't verify what color those trucks are. 

Southwest Chief:

It's possible that that the locos in that first photo actually have black trucks.  That B+W photo is so washed out I couldn't verify what color those trucks are. 

Check third picture, I amended original post.

don7:

F9 with one stripe and silver wheel sets and silver roof.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw5771cwc.jpg

I'm sorry but the photo given above is not proof that a Rio Grande F unit ever wore a silver roof while in single striped paint.  First, its a poor quality B&W photo and the appearance of the roof is most likely a reflection of glare off the corner of the roof.  Second, that photo is of the Rio Grande Zepher and F9A #5771 never had silver paint on the roof during the RGZ era.  I realize there is an exception to everything, but I have seen hundreds of photo's of the RGZ and never one showed a silver roof.  The above photo would never be accept by experts as visual proof.  I don't believe the RGZ era F9's ever had silver trucks or fuel tank as cost savings was important and that practice had been abandoned by around 1964.  The trucks and tank in that photo are most likely black and there is the quality and lighting in the B&W photo, not to mention a little weathering giving them a light appearance.

Same F9 5771 without silver wheel sets, black roof

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw5771ags.jpg

As stated above, many of the F units did have silver trucks, if briefly, primarily for passenger service.  The reason it didn't last long was due to the high maintenence and cost.  Basically the trucks had to be repainted silver after every trip across the system, or every other trip.  They look sharp true.  Athearns F3A in single stripe came with silver trucks.

In the end, the modeler can do what they like.  If its ones primary goal to be prototypical and to copy what the real railroad did, then you would be ok to have silver trucks on a single stripe paint prior to 1965 or 1964.  There were a few F units with silver roofs after 1964, but those were the F's remaining in 4-stripe paint, like #5571, which even pulled the California Zephyr in 4-stripe paint ahead of a brace of single stripe F7's.  (see photo in Zephyr's thru the Rockies - color pictorial of the zephyr trains)

Southwest Chief:

It's possible that that the locos in that first photo actually have black trucks.  That B+W photo is so washed out I couldn't verify what color those trucks are. 

Not only possible but most likely the F's in that B&W photo do indeed have black roof and trucks.  Its a very washed out B&W photo and glare can give the appearance of a different color.  I could only trust color photographs if someone wanted actual proof.  The train in that photo was the Rio Grande Zephyr and while I wasn't able to ride it, I've been interested in it and looking at many photo's since 1984.  I have never seen a photo of the F9's or the steam generator during RGZ era with silver roof.  Nor silver trucks.

riogrande5761:

The train in that photo was the Rio Grande Zephyr and while I wasn't able to ride it, I've been interested in it and looking at many photo's since 1984.  I have never seen a photo of the F9's or the steam generator during RGZ era with silver roof.  Nor silver trucks.

Looking at the Otto Perry pictures, it would seem most of the F units used in passenger service in the fifties and into the early sixties had silver trucks at one time.  Freight units had black trucks. The picture below is a rebuilt unit that was wrecked and was labeled F9A in 1954.  You can see the high fans, but EMD lists it as a F9A.

This unit has the silver trucks. The 5531:2 stands for rebuilt to F9A standard. This was done in February of 1954. 

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00010909 

CAZEPHYR:

riogrande5761:

The train in that photo was the Rio Grande Zephyr and while I wasn't able to ride it, I've been interested in it and looking at many photo's since 1984.  I have never seen a photo of the F9's or the steam generator during RGZ era with silver roof.  Nor silver trucks.

 

Looking at the Otto Perry pictures, it would seem most of the F units used in passenger service in the fifties and into the early sixties had silver trucks at one time.  Freight units had black trucks. The picture below is a rebuilt unit that was wrecked and was labeled F9A in 1954.  You can see the high fans, but EMD lists it as a F9A.

This unit has the silver trucks. The 5531:2 stands for rebuilt to F9A standard. This was done in February of 1954. 

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00010909 

The unit looks to be a F3 rebuilt into a ??

 

02.54

3546:2

F9A

DRGW

5531:2

1

.

CZ

Yes, it would have only been the F units used in passenger service that would have gotten that special treatment.  I remember reading an article about the Santa Fe, another RR famous for silver trucks, and how they had to be spray painted after each trip to keep them looking nice.  You can see what a major maintenence upkeep that is!  Same for the Rio Grande. 

Oh you mean this diesel?

It was an F3A and rebuilt by EMD to an F9m, but Rio Grande still considered it and F3 and it still had the same horsepower rating of 1500 hp, so it wasn't fully upgraded in the rebuild to an F9.

riogrande5761:

It was an F3A and rebuilt by EMD to an F9m, but Rio Grande still considered it and F3 and it still had the same horsepower rating of 1500 hp, so it wasn't fully upgraded in the rebuild to an F9.

That is the one, but it had a silver top on it also in the picture.   It probably had several paint schemes over the years.  EMD called it a F9A on the order form I viewed.  I am surprised it did not get the HP upgrade.  When I found the picture and noticed the high fans, I knew that was a rebuild. 

Thanks

CZ

CAZEPHYR:

That is the one, but it had a silver top on it also in the picture.   It probably had several paint schemes over the years.  EMD called it a F9A.  I am surprised it did not get the HP upgrade.

Thanks

CZ

Yes, and as you can see it is the 4-stripe paint job which had a silver roof as part of its paint specification.  The single stripe had black roofs on the other hand.  According to Joseph Strapac's book Rio Grande Diesels Volume 1, it was referred to as an F9M (the M must have been a rebuild designation).

riogrande5761:

CAZEPHYR:

That is the one, but it had a silver top on it also in the picture.   It probably had several paint schemes over the years.  EMD called it a F9A.  I am surprised it did not get the HP upgrade.

Thanks

CZ

Yes, and as you can see it is the 4-stripe paint job which had a silver roof as part of its paint specification.  The single stripe had black roofs on the other hand.  EMD called it an F9M, not an F9A, at least according to Joseph Strapac's book.

 It is a nice looking model and a one of a kind.  Does anyone make it with the silver trucks and top?  I like the four stripe scheme since it is an early one.  If the HP rating was not changed, it would be used by the dispatcher as a F3 for sure. 

Looking at the grills, they seem to be a Farr type of the 5531, where the model has the horizontal type. 

Thanks

CZ

CAZEPHYR:

 It is a nice looking model and a one of a kind.  Does anyone make it with the silver trucks and top?  I like the four stripe scheme since it is an early one.  If the HP rating was not changed, it would be used by the dispatcher as a F3 for sure. 

Thanks

CZ

Yes, Athearn made a version with silver trucks and roof - its the 4-stripe version like the Otto Perry photo, same as that.  It was offered first by Athearn in 4-stripe and then later in single stripe.  So both are a few years out of production by now.  You'll have to check Ebay or swap meets to find the 4-stripe silver roof version unless Athearn re-runs it some day.  It was from the website: "HO F3A, D&RGW #5531 [ATHG2021] Announced 10/29/2003 Discontinued" so six years out of production.

 http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG2021

What I pictured was an Athearn Genesis F9M.  The following was copied from Athearns website in quotes:  "HO F9M, D&RGW/1 Stripe #5531 [ATHG22012]  Announced 1/17/2006 Discontinued"

 Athearn, using the highligher F parts, was able to copy Rio Grande's #5531 rebuilt F3A and model the major phase details of it being part F3 (roof squirrel cage DB fan and tall cooling fans) and part F9 (side grills and louvers).  I picked up the 1-stripe because I model 1965 and later.  the 4-stripe is 1961 and earlier. 

The F9M had the same air grills as the other F9's, the Farr type.  It has vertical slits rather than the primarily horizontal type of the phase I F7's.  If you click to enlarge the picture, you can see its all verticle slits.  The F3's grills were the "chicken wire" type and not retained in the rebuild.

I didn't originally plan on buying F3's of any kind and was going to start my modeling era after 1966, but I came across some great discount prices and now have the F3ABBA set and the F9M, which are all single stripe and 1961-1965 time frame.  All the F3's were off the roster by January 1966.

The F9M in the photo has silver trucks but they were repainted black during the last year or two of its working life.  Technically I should repaint them too since I'm not modeling the silver truck period which was more likely 1963, maybe part of 1964, the tail end of silver trucks.

 Hi,

check this link out.  Hope it is what you are looking for: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=33406&nseq=12

Hope it helps.

Frank

PS:Done a search on Railpictures.net and it came up with a number of pictures of F7's.  

cudaken:

As you can see they have black trucks. Some trucks where painted silver, right? Black trucks and fuel tank, just do not look right to me.

 Hope for some pictures before I start taking them a part.

                Cuda Ken

Ken, see if you can scare up a copy of Diesel Era, Volume 10 #4, July/August 1999.  In there is an extensive article on DRGW F5's, F7's and F9's with lots of black and white and color photos. 

 Boy, thanks for all the great answers and PIC's as well! The F-9 is pulling great and will be heading to the paint shop after I get some other projects done.

Make sure to post before and after pics.

IMO, the my Stewart F units are the best running engines I have, maybe only the KATO GP35's are as good!  But no wonder because KATO made the original Stewart F units and the later versions have even been improved on when they were made in the US before Bowser took over.