General Discussion (Classic Trains)

 I have been following American railroads for a little over two years: my interest started a year after building my garden railroad which is American in type and predominantly freight.

I enjoy reading Classic Trains magazine very much indeed and also enjoy the information posted here -  even if I don't comprehend a lot of it. 

It seems that in the States present day trains are, in the main, freight but probably, in the time frames discussed here, passenger trains were more in evidence.

I do wonder, however, if freight trains are considered as "Classic" as they do not seem to get the interest that passenger trains enjoy.

Great Western:

 I have been following American railroads for a little over two years: my interest started a year after building my garden railroad which is American in type and predominantly freight.

I enjoy reading Classic Trains magazine very much indeed and also enjoy the information posted here -  even if I don't comprehend a lot of it. 

It seems that in the States present day trains are, in the main, freight but probably, in the time frames discussed here, passenger trains were more in evidence.

I do wonder, however, if freight trains are considered as "Classic" as they do not seem to get the interest that passenger trains enjoy.

 

Through the 1950s railroads carried U.S. Mail and this there were many passenger trains.  And thus they were the most visibile part of virtually any railroad.  As passenger trains dissappeared so did the railroads in many people's eyes.  Freight is the most prominent service, with a few exceptions, on most mainline railroads here today.  Amtrak corridors scattered across the country, plus commuter operations in a handful (but growing handful) of cities do exist, but, yeah, freight is predominant.

But as for "Classic" freight, yes, it is a point not often thought of.  Today is largeley containers or tailers on flat or well cars and unit trains of particular products from auto parts to coal, grain, and chemicals.  The classic freight train of yesterday was a mix of box cars, refridgerators, coal hoppers, flat cars, gondolas, tank cars, a great mix of commodities and merchandis.  Today, trains are more product specific and thus the design, the dynamics, and the operations are somewhat different than the classic freights!

Passenger trains were a moving billboard of the railroads they represented.  The speed and its looks were exciting.  I recall looking into the windows and wondering where all the people were going and anyone famous on board.  At night it was even more exciting, you can see in them better and the speeding wheels threw sparks everywhere.  Hotels on wheels, buzzing by.

Freight trains back then were also exciting, watching the engines struggle to pull the mix of freight referenced in an earlier post.  Watching a mainline train do its switch work, yes freight's were classics too.  Then to yeild to an oncomming passenger train.  Engines back then had a unique sound to each make and model, steam or diesel.  And at the end, a caboose...gone today, missed and always a classic.

 Classic Trains is about an era in railroading that seen it visually at its best.  Passenger or freight it made no difference about the great era of our hobby.

It is a good question.  And this is how I see it; your views may differ.

We have been post "transition era" for about 60 years now, give or take, which means the reign of the diesel is well established, even past the Diamond Jubilee!  So, I would say that anything pre-1900 would be 'olde tyme', with the 1900-1913/14 timeframe being simply 'early modern', and the period between 1915 and 1959 as 'classic'.  As such, the term includes all the early diesels which pulled freights and passenger trains as their electric and steam counterparts did.

Private automobiles and aircraft travel supplanted the railroads in terms of both convenience and autonomy.  Considering that the railroads were only too happy to see this development so that their entreaties to Congress were bolstered with the fact of rapidly declining ridership, modern passenger rail travel is really a hold-over.  It is too bad, though, considering that rail is otherwise so efficient.

To me, as a semi-serious, semi-freelance N&W, Pennsy, NYC, and UP modeller, freights were then, as they are now, the life blood of the railroads, so they are the epitome of a 'classic train'.  Nothing says transition era railroading better than a long string of coal hoppers tugged up-grade by two bellowing Y6b Mallets with a lone pusher bringing up the rear.  Every mile those things churned up the tracks generated the company another $40 or $50 back then ( a guess, but probably close?).

-Crandell

I don't think it's the type of train, passenger or freight, that defines classic American railroading, but rather the era.  Among steam locomotive enthusiasts the great freight locomotives are appreciated as much as their passenger-hauling counterparts.  Diesels too aren't shunned from classic conotation.  To me, classic has to do with the roadname and the era of operation.  I think the classic era ended by 1970, though remnants remained for long afterward.

Being a youngster compared to many here, my only glimpses of classic railroading are restored steamers and what remained of the classic era during my youth, such as the old C&O GP-9's I remember in work train service in the 80's, still wearing their original paint scheme; or BN's E-9's working commuter runs out of Chicago into the early 90's, which I was also fortunate to see and photograph.

 Thanks a million for these great replies.      Keep 'em rolling guys.  [:D]

I have to agree with above posts Not only were the passenger trains a rolling billboard but the paint schemees on that engines cars cabooses and freight cars spoke volumes.   When staem ruled the whistles could even be tuned to a certain pitch. Now everything looks alike Larry

To me at least the "Classic" era was defined by the diversity of the trains whether they were passenger or freight. Railroads had whole fleets of streamliners with their different color schemes. The same roads often still had branch line freight and even mixed trains headed by ancient steam locomotives. Nowhere was the diversity of the trains and their engines so great as on the many short lines. This lasted even into the early diesel era.

Mark

Yes, I think it's important to understand that the title "Classic Trains" isn't referring to particular trains as being classics, like the Twentieth Century Limited or Empire Builder, etc. but would be better definied as "trains of the classic era"...which would roughly be the period before Amtrak and the large mergers of recent decades.

Possibly because of the size of the US, freight railroading has always been a more prominent part of railroading here compared to the UK and Europe. As someone once said, if you say "train" to an Englishman, he pictures a passenger train...say "train" to an American, and he pictures a freight train.

What is the Classic Era?  To me Phoebe Snow with 10 cars snaking through the Delaware Water Gap in 1955 or streaking through a cut in the trees about a mile down hill and away from my English class window was classic as was the DL&W MUs with two or threee cars, Erie Vanderbuilt tanks at Caldwell, or LIRR Owl Eyes and double deckers, NYC FA's on the West Shore and LV PA's along the Lehigh River, and PRR GG1's at speed west of New Brunswick, NKP Berks with how many reefers in tow?, MLW under wire and Sante Fe or SP under sea level. Likewise, woodburners of the 1880s pushing and pulling a drag over western mountains, maybe even in a snow storm, are totally classic.  Or Conrail blue or BNSF warbonnets or FEC orange is classic to someone.  Era, railroad, train, observer: in algebraic demensions add up to the myriad of answers 

Well here's how our host defines things:

"Classic Trains is a quarterly magazine celebrating the "golden years of railroading." It covers the North American railroad scene from the late 1920s to the late 1970s. Proud steam giants, colorful streamliners, great passenger terminals, down-home local trains, timeworn cabooses, recollections of railroaders and train-watchers . . . they're all in the pages of Classic Trains. "

By 1920 or so, most of the mergers of smaller railroads had already happened, creating the large railroads many of us grew up with: New York Central, Great Northern, Southern, Santa Fe, etc. These railroads generally stayed the same thru the years until the "merger era" started in the sixties (New York Central + Pennsylvania = Penn Central, Great Northern +  Northern Pacific + Burlington Route + SP&S = Burlington Northern, etc.). So I guess that relatively stable period is generally considered the "classic trains era".

...all of which begs the question: what will we call the period from 1970 - 2020 about sixty years from now?  Modern?   And when we move through 2100, what characterization will we ascribe to the period just past?

-Crandell

Today even a quartet of cascade green SD-40-2's running five or so years ago might be classic. The song "you don't know what you've got till its gone" applies.Memories are part of being a railfan.

You never know, generally the most recent times are called "modern" times, but eventually come to be called something else. Of course in art there was a "modern art" movement (not to be confused with "art moderne") which passed and was replaced by "post-modernism". Music historians still call Les Paul and Mary Ford's music "the new sound" even though it debuted 60 years ago.

I think it's important to appreciate what's around now. I know some younger folks complain that they just missed this or that, but in time you'll look back and see the value of what's here now. When I started serious railfanning and taking pictures 30 years ago many people were still bummed about the passing of steam 20-25 years before...yet I'm very glad I took the pics I did of BN green, CNW trains, Soo Line, Milwaukee Road, etc.