General Discussion

Convicted One:

Los Angeles Rams Guy:

Can anyone tell me what their operations are like and what commodity groups are strong for them?  I'm guessing that the mainline isn't up to the lofty PRR standards these days, though.

 

Inside Fort Wayne, the vast majority of traffic you see on this line is NS's triple Crown using the lines as a staging area for access to their yard. I see triple crown trains stopped on this single track main, all the time, giving you an idea just what a priority these lines are.

NS also uses a portion of this line as a bridge between their new castle district (to cincinnati) and their NKP line into chicago. This by far is the heaviest moving traffic use this line sees.

On top of that I frequently see a scrap metal train westbound, that may actually be CF&E traffic

And there is a sulfur train that comes through from time to time, that really shows just how bad a shape this line is in.  due to the weight of this train, there are sections where the rail bows up (BETWEEN WHEELSETS) high enough to pull the spikes right out of the ties, as the train rolls along.

I guess that CSX has some absurdly small restriction (in the lease agreement to CF&E)  on just how many  (few) trains CF&E can operate on this line per day.  Makes the line pretty much worthless to anyone needing to move volume

Geez, it sounds like it hasn't improved much since I was out there last.  That ex-PRR main seems like it took a huge beating during WWI & WWII under gov't control and it hasn't recovered since.

I'm curious where you would aim such an HSR train.  Columbus?

 HSR needs to go through population centers, so the old Lake Shore line (the Water Level Route) direct from Chicago to Toledo and Cleveland is a much more likely route.  The old PRR might be rehabbed by NS in order to take traffic off the Water Level in order to accommodate more passenger service, but the whole revamp would have to be paid for by the government. 

In fact, if you're looking for a good potential dedicated HSR line, the old Wabash right of way along the north borders of Indiana and Michigan is ideal.  True, it no longer has tracks, but it ran through very few towns and was the shortest route between Chicago and Toledo, almost arrow straight.  

 The government did not control the railroads during World War II. 

As for on-line city populations, the Fort Wayne route is 251,247 and the South Bend route is 229,698.  Taking county populations, the Fort Wayne line is only 689,255 while South Bend is 820,696.  The problem has been and remains that, other than a couple population centers, there is little other intermediate market between Chicago and Toledo.  Other than beating driving, air travel is a strong competitor between major cities.

In terms of mileage, the Fort Wayne line to Toledo is 15 miles longer through Bryan, 13 miles longer but significantly faster to Detroit through Adrian than through Kalamazoo, 11 miles longer to Cleveland through Lima and Shelby (Mansfield), but 60 miles shorter to Columbus.

The reduced infrastructure costs in sharing the NS tracks and increasing capacity needs to be weighed against the number of trains and reliability.  Fewer trains would be warranted at 110 than at 150 or 220 mph where segregated facilities would be desirable if not essential.  Adding Pontiac (Detroit) trains to the number from Chicago results in a substantial volume between Toledo and Cleveland to the point that an alternative route through Lima may be desirable for some trains.

The CSX (former B&O) through Akron and Youngstown would be longer but faster seconday route from Crestline than the former PRR through Canton and Alliance to Pittsburgh from Chicago.  The CSX would be a good route for the principal Chicago-Cleveland-Pittsburgh Corridor as well.  This also would be a good route for an intrastate round trip to Columbus or Cincinnati from Youngstown.

Convicted One:

Los Angeles Rams Guy:

Can anyone tell me what their operations are like and what commodity groups are strong for them?  I'm guessing that the mainline isn't up to the lofty PRR standards these days, though.

 

Inside Fort Wayne, the vast majority of traffic you see on this line is NS's triple Crown using the lines as a staging area for access to their yard. I see triple crown trains stopped on this single track main, all the time, giving you an idea just what a priority these lines are.

NS also uses a portion of this line as a bridge between their new castle district (to cincinnati) and their NKP line into chicago. This by far is the heaviest moving traffic use this line sees.

On top of that I frequently see a scrap metal train westbound, that may actually be CF&E traffic

And there is a sulfur train that comes through from time to time, that really shows just how bad a shape this line is in.  due to the weight of this train, there are sections where the rail bows up (BETWEEN WHEELSETS) high enough to pull the spikes right out of the ties, as the train rolls along.

I guess that CSX has some absurdly small restriction (in the lease agreement to CF&E)  on just how many  (few) trains CF&E can operate on this line per day.  Makes the line pretty much worthless to anyone needing to move volume

Those scrap trains may have been NS trains LF14 or LF61 depending upon the day.  NS has most of the traffic rights to the SDI plant in Columbia City.  They take out scrap and come back with finished H-beams.  I'm still waiting to see a rail train coming from the SDI rail plant next door.

The reason you see so many Triple Crown trains loitering on the CF&E is that Triple Crown's main hub was carved out of the former Pennsy Piqua Yard.  You should see fewer trains sitting on the main as TC has added track so that there are two switching leads on each side of the yard.  Now one train can work each end (it's a double-ended yard) and one can be waiting its turn without fouling the mains in Fort Wayne.   

rrnut282:

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The reason you see so many Triple Crown trains loitering on the CF&E is that Triple Crown's main hub was carved out of the former Pennsy Piqua Yard.  You should see fewer trains sitting on the main as TC has added track so that there are two switching leads on each side of the yard.  Now one train can work each end (it's a double-ended yard) and one can be waiting its turn without fouling the mains in Fort Wayne.   

my favorite place to railfan is walking between Monroe and Winter Streets..wish those guys in the trucks from TC would stop giving me dirty looks ..lol!

I'm thinking that the mysterious third abutment on the PRR bridge over Jefferson street was for a switch lead that could have been built into a "never built" industrial park right where Dimension Ford once stood.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=Fort+wayne&ie=UTF8&ll=41.074175,-85.176702&spn=0.001009,0.00269&t=h&z=19

thinking about it, with Essex,  G.E.,  and Fort Wayne Rolling Mills on one side, and the Leesburgh road industrial district on the other ,it may have made logical sense once to presume the "west of Swinney" area would one day be an industrial beehive.

Well acuttaly the third track was a industy track to the GR&I.   ran to old Wayne feeds & then on the old Penn/PC/ CR to Dana Axle & then on into Industrial Park north of Coliseum Blvd.  worked Food Marketing & Avery tape factory.  back when Penn had  line was a Ice house on west side before where Tower Tavern is now.  also had a lead into Dana powerhouse where coal in old 55 ton hoppers where deliverd.  The old Gr&I had about 30 industy to work betwenn  Rueion & Wasington center rd..

 a distance of a lil or 2 miles.  back in day that was a very active line.      I live about 1/2 mile from the dana plant & NS still works line.     now Cagill brings in salt in 110 ton aluminion hoppers. into the old Pillbury plant which is a transload to trucks.  so yes the old GR&I line is still active.  although now served by NS off the old NKP CHI line.     

                                                             Allen