Transit

Does this herald the return of a underground conduit system or perhaps some more exotic technology? Is everything old suddenly new again?

http://www.welovedc.com/2009/06/23/dc-mythbusting-the-dc-streetcar-system/

In this case, it looks like something that's old is still old.  I would guess that this particular street hasn't been resurfaced in decades.  At any rate, conduit electrification is a labor-intensive and expensive way to operate streetcars.

 One would think so but apparently they will have to either rescind the ban of overhead power distirbution or get very creative in relation to who these vehicles would be powered as it would be an opportunity to stretch the envelope in technical terms rather than revisit the history of traction, but then again, most likely perhaps the ban is already envisioned to be removed. I always thought that the idea that overhead wires were a blight on the scenery was abit extreme. If my failing memory serves me correctly werent the Washington Annapolis interurbans dual voltage in order to run over the local DC lines?, I cant seem to recall if they were fitted with a plow for the conduit.

CSSHEGEWISCH:

In this case, it looks like something that's old is still old.  I would guess that this particular street hasn't been resurfaced in decades

Just a comment:  Sighting old streetcar tracks.  Here in our fair city of Munice, In., I know of an {residential}, intersection where the tracks are still visible.  If my memory {reading the history}, serves me correctly....Our streetcar system in the city was abandoned in 1931....!

 I can't top you csshegewisch, but I can get close!  Ravenna, Ohio still has a brick-paved street (Sycamore Street?) that has the rails of The Northern Ohio Traction & Light Company on it, unburied since the end of service in 1932!  I believe this one block stretch of track is the very last interurban rail left in Ohio's Western Reserve.  When in Ravenna, I go out of my way to drive down this street and feel the rails 'neath my tires.  Nothing else feels quite like rubber tires on a steel track.

My first visit to Washington DC was in 1956 and I still remember being absolutely slack-jawed seeing PCC's moving along with the poles tied down to their roofs!  Like another contributor here, I, too, enjoy seeing a maze of wires over tracks in the street, but somehow it seems wrong in a place like DC or even New York, to say nothing of Paris or London.  

Muncie's streetcars did last into the 1930's, for a short time  a local operation of the Indiana Railroad.  They even received some new double-truck lightweights in the 1930's, transferred by Indiana Railroad from the New Albany - Jeffersonville run which had been abandoned.  The Muncie people thought they were new, having been thoroughly reconditioned.  But even then, under Indiana RR management, gradual bus conversion as track wore out and road repairs were made, was in progress.   Marion's lasted through WWII as a local cooperative operation with the operators and maintenance people all part owners.

The French have developed two competitive wire-less tram schemes, plus of course battery operation, which is old hat.   One uses a power rail within the pavement that is automatically energized only when the tram is above it (sort of five meter sections insulated from each other), and the other simply transmitts ac electric power with the primary of the power transformer buried in the street and the secondary just above the street below the tram.

Both are in use in French cities, Marseilles being one.    Only one kind in one city, of course, and only in archtecturally sensitive downtown areas, with trolley wire elsewhere.

The Washington DC system was a very well run high-speed streetcar system and it was mostly politics that got it switched to all-buses.   Roy Chalk wanted to continue to run streetcars, all PCC's.

Yes, the Washington, Batlimore, and Annapolis interurbans that were assigned to the runs to Waashington could run on 600V trolley, 600V conduit, and 1200V trolley, if my memory is correct.   In any case, I am sure they used conduit while running downtwon on I think New York Avenue, using the route of the Benning line (10 and 12).    Some of their interurban cars were three-truck two body articulateds, much like modern light rail cars.   But they had train doors and could mu with the two-truck cars.

I am a native Washingtonian and note that the photo provided is in a residential area of DC (Georgetown, to be specific).  Though the tracks that remain in this section of town would certainly benefit those who live in this/these areas, a light rail system in today's DC needs to serve major thoroughfares, like K, L, and M Streets, the business, mostly non-governmental sections of DC.  M Street runs through South Georgetown, and light rail would need to run up Wisconsin Avenue, which goes south to north through Georgetown.  In general, a light rail system in DC needs to provide service to those area of town that are not adequately served by the Metrorail system, and Georgetown is the primary example.

I have to wonder if the photograph shows a remnant of DC's long-abandoned and all-but-forgotten cable car system. Most of us associate cable cars with San Francisco only, but may cities used cable cars between about 1870 and 1900, even in flat areas. You can find a list (it may be partial) in the Wikipedia article about cable cars.

Alan Robinson:

I have to wonder if the photograph shows a remnant of DC's long-abandoned and all-but-forgotten cable car system. Most of us associate cable cars with San Francisco only, but may cities used cable cars between about 1870 and 1900, even in flat areas. You can find a list (it may be partial) in the Wikipedia article about cable cars.

 As mentioned above in another post, DC's streetcar system ran through underground conduit.  There was a Federal ban on overhead wires for esthetic reasons.  The trolley cars had standard poles on them for trips out of the District where they could run under the less expensive overhead wires.  I remember seeing the stretch of track in the photo when I lived in the DC area.  I stumbled upon it while I was exploring and learning the area.  Never did get back to it to see how far it ran.

Washington, DC, never operated cable cars.   However, some similar conduit in NYC was converted  from cable conduit, including 3rd Avenue's streetcar line.

Not quite right.  D.C streetcars did have overhead wires in certain sections of town.  I grew up in the Brookland section of northeast DC in the 50's and 60's, and remember the overhead wires quite vividly.  In fact, it was the sport of youngsters to sit in the back of the streetcar, reach out through the open windows in the center rear of the car and pull downward on the shoe retraction cable. This would disconnect the shoe from the overhead wire, and kill the power to the car momentarily, eliciting shouts of  profanity from the operator.  Good for a giggle back then. If one got caught in the act, the worst case scenario was getting put off at the next stop with a crumpled shirt collar from being assisted off the car. A report from a member of the Popes Creek (MD) Sub railfan group..."For those who are following the DC Streetcar proposal... there are now fresh rails embedded in the pavement of portions of "H" St. NE, and a pile of rails along with some clearing of trees and brush near where the old Sheperd branch crosses South Capital Street.  That is where the carbarn facility is supposed to go.  It looks like we really will be getting street cars in D.C. once again!  I hope they restore an old PCC to DC Transit colors for history's sake."

That is wonderful to see so many years later. Amazing!

The Capitol Transit main streetcar lines on 14th Street, 11th Street, and Calvert Bridge to Navy Yard were all conduit without any wire.   The Rosslyn-Benning, branches to Seat Pleasant and Kennilworth heavy line, had a pair of plowpits on the east side of the city and wire beyond to the eastern destination, but conduit all the way to Rosslyn.   The North Capitol line  had a plowpit pair near where the line turned off North Capitol and ran next to the B&O Baltimore line right-of way to Branchville with wire.   The Branchville-Belltsville shuttle dinky was one double-end non-PCC car, all wire.  There were two plowpit pairs in Georgetown.   One was for the line to Frendship Heights and there were as a separate pair just beyond the junction with the Rosslyn trackage on PRW for the Cabin John LIne.   My memeory of street names is not perfect.  Downtown Washington was definitely all conduit, no wire, but as noted outer areas definitely did have wire, even before crossing the city line to suburbs.   Is Wisconsin Avenue the main street between Gerogetown and Frenship Heights?  I think a Reform Synagoge where I both once sang with the choir (part of a visiting choir) and also did some acoustical consultation is located on that street.  It had wire, not conduit.   Pennsylvania Avenue had a landscaped center mall "neutral ground" PRW for the streetcars, but it was conduit.   What a beautiful, fast, well-run system it was, as find as any anywhere.   At the end, most PCC's had fluorescent lights!    One, the "Silver Sightseer" was air-conditioned. 

To answer Dave Klepper's question Wisconsin Avenue was the main drag between Georgetown and Friendship Heights on the DC line. Wisconsin Avenue continued on further into Montgomery County to Bethesda where it changed to Rockville Pike north of the Beltway.

As far as streetcar service on Wisconsin Avenue went the Route 30 Line ran from Barney Circle (17th and Pennsylvania Avenue SE) to Friendship Heights. The power collection was by center conduit from Barney Circle through downtown Washington to Wisconsin Avenue to just north of  P street where it was changed to overhead wire for the rest of the trip to Friendship Heights. The Route 20 line (Union Station-Glen Echo-Cabin John) shared Wisconsin Avenue with the Route 30 to P street where it turned west to head for Cabin John. Up through the mid 1930's Capital Transit ran a line from up Wisconsin Avenue fromGeorgetown through Friendship Heights to Rockville. I am not sure where the line ran once it left Friendship Heights.

After WWII the Capital Transit Company's streetcar lines were mostly all PCC, but one of the things that did street cars in in Washington, DC was the requirement for the center slot third rail power collection system which was expensive to operate and maintain.