Toy train operating and collecting

Have a Lionel Chessie System passenger set which I'm using for the first time in over 20 years or so, the lights in the cars flicker. How do I get into the cars, there are no screws on the roofs or on the under frames. Don't want to pry the roof tops off for fear of damage. Help!!!

Look closely at the white plastic parts of the windows.  I think you will find that a couple of them on each side of the car are wedge-shaped, thicker at the top than at the bottom.  Push in on them just enough to disengage them from the tops of the window openings while pulling up on the roof.  (You'll need to have about 5 hands to do this, 4 for the windows and 1 for the roof!)

What are you going to do when you get the car open?  The flickering is probably due to having a single pickup, which isn't always in contact with a live center rail.  A cure for it is to install a bridge rectifier and a capacitor inside the car, to carry the lights over the interruptions in the voltage from the pickup.  I have done this with many of my cars, even removing one pickup from some two-pickup cars to reduce the load so that I can pull a longer train.

lionelsoni:

The flickering is probably due to having a single pickup, which isn't always in contact with a live center rail.  A cure for it is to install a bridge rectifier and a capacitor inside the car, to carry the lights over the interruptions in the voltage from the pickup.  I have done this with many of my cars, even removing one pickup from some two-pickup cars to reduce the load so that I can pull a longer train.

 I would like to do this to cure the same problem in one of my cars. What do I need to get? Is there a specific size or type? Is this something I can get at Radio Shack?

Thanks

Yes.  You need only two components per car, the rectifier module (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062581) and a capacitor (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102508).  Wire the ~ terminals of the rectifier to the track voltage, that is, the pickup and the wheels.  Wire the + and - terminals to the capacitor, with the - terminals of the rectifier and capacitor together.  Then wire the lamp(s) across the capacitor.

If you have an older car whose lamp socket is integral with the car frame, like the 2400-series streamliners, you will have to put in a new socket that is insulated from the frame.  You can attach it to the floor so that the filament is in about the same position as it was with the old socket, which can stay in place.  The 2400 cars have two 7-volt lamps in series.  Just treat the series string as one lamp in connecting it to the capacitor.

A modern car with many lamps may need a second capacitor in parallel with the first.

For cars with transparent windows and furniture inside, I mount the capacitor on the ceiling, where there is room and it is hard to see from the outside.

 My car is a 2429 Livingston. Could you post a schematic of the connections?

Take off the top of your car, by unscrewing the ventilators, and see how it is wired now.  I think you will find that the pickup wire goes to one lamp socket, then the other terminal of that socket goes to the other socket, whose shell is attached to the car frame.  If this is how it is wired, let me know; and we'll go from there.

Hey Bob, thanks for the reply on my problem of flickering lights, but there are no screws on the roofs of the cars, the cars are from I beleive the MPC or FunDemensions period and are numbered in the 9500 series, yellow in color with a broad orange stripe running above the windows, and a grey roof and dark blue under carriage, two trucks with 6 wheels per truck. I've been looking for some type of manual release to "spring" off the roof but no luck.

Phil

insfil:

there are no screws on the roofs of the cars,

 I think Bob was refering to my 2429 Livingston Pulman car. I believe he has it right but I am at work right now (on my birthday, no less) and not at home working on my layout, where I should be, but anyway I'll confirm the wireing of the Livingston tonight and get back to Bob so he can guide me through the process. I have a Radio Shack near work, so I can stop by tonight and pick up the parts I need to finally eliminate the flickering lights. 

I'm not kidding, Bob should write a book on Electronics for Electric Trains. It would be a best seller and fill in a huge gap in layout construction litature.  Again, thanks for the help.

Phil, as Bob mentioned in earlier post there is a way to remove the roof - a trick I have never been able to master (as Bob said you need 5 hands). I have actually brought my PRR 9500 cars into Trainworld to have lightbulb replaced!

That's right--push in the windows for the modern 9500 short Madisons, unscrew the ventilators for the postwar 2400 small streamliners.

lionelsoni:

Take off the top of your car, by unscrewing the ventilators, and see how it is wired now.  I think you will find that the pickup wire goes to one lamp socket, then the other terminal of that socket goes to the other socket, whose shell is attached to the car frame.  If this is how it is wired, let me know; and we'll go from there.

Bob, you are correct. Both lamps are attached to a metal bracket that is attached to the frame. There is only one pick up and the wire goes to one lamp, then to the other. I picked up the bridge and diode at Radio Shack. I am still not sure how to connect everything.

That's what I'm here for!

I'm afraid you'll have to go back to Radio Shack (or somewhere) to get an insulated socket to replace that second one, as I mentioned above.  You probably have two number 51 bayonet lamps (7.5 volts, 220 milliamperes, G-3 1/2) in there right now.  Unfortunately, Radio Shack no longer sells bayonet sockets with mounting tabs.  You could buy what they do sell (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062369) and figure out a way to mount it while keeping it completely insulated from the car frame.  I think a better course of action would be to buy their screw socket (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062372), which does have a mounting tab, and change that lamp to the screw version of the number 51, which is the number 50 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102811).  Attach the mounting tab to the floor of the car and bend it to get the filament close to where the original lamp (which will no longer be in its socket) was.

Now for the wiring.  Solder the - terminal of the bridge rectifier to the - terminal of the capacitor.  The capacitor has a row of arrows down one side with (not very obvious) minus signs on them.  They point to the end with the - terminal.  Solder the + terminal of the bridge rectifier to the other capacitor terminal.  

Disconnect the pickup wire from the first lamp socket.  Disconnect the wire that runs between the two sockets from the (unused) second socket and solder it to one of the terminals of the new socket.  Then solder a wire from each of the two free terminals, one on each lamp socket, to the capacitor terminals.  Polarity doesn't matter here.

Solder the pickup wire to one of the rectifier's ~ terminals (extending it if it's not long enough to reach).  Solder the other ~ terminal to a wire that you connect to the frame.  The mounting screw for the new lamp is a handy place for this.

lionelsoni:

Now for the wiring.  Solder the - terminal of the bridge rectifier to the - terminal of the capacitor.  The capacitor has a row of arrows down one side with (not very obvious) minus signs on them.  They point to the end with the - terminal.  Solder the + terminal of the bridge rectifier to the other capacitor terminal.  

Disconnect the pickup wire from the first lamp socket.  Disconnect the wire that runs between the two sockets from the (unused) second socket and solder it to one of the terminals of the new socket.  Then solder a wire from each of the two free terminals, one on each lamp socket, to the capacitor terminals.  Polarity doesn't matter here.

Solder the pickup wire to one of the rectifier's ~ terminals (extending it if it's not long enough to reach).  Solder the other ~ terminal to a wire that you connect to the frame.  The mounting screw for the new lamp is a handy place for this.

Bob,

I got the light socket and bulb. I am still unclear on how to wire this. The Bridge Rectifier has four wire connected to it. Also I am making a bracket to hold the new bulb socket. The other original socket is still connected to the metal bracket that is connected to the frame. Do I need to replace both sockets with insulated ones? It doesn't sound like it in your instruction, just the one. Is there any way you could draw a schematic and post it here. I am an old power plant electrician, never worked with bridge rectifiers etc. Might as well be a chip as far as my experience goes. Thanks. I am close to having this done and have learned a lot. Looking forward to a car that doesn't flicker. 

I'm sorry, but I don't have any easy way to post a schematic.  But we're almost there.

Yes, the bridge rectifier has 4 wires.  One should be marked +, one should be marked -, and the other two should be marked ~.  If they left off any of these markings, you can figure out the missing ones:  The + and - are always opposite each other; and the remaining two must be the ~ terminals.  The + and - go to the capacitor.  Usually, only the - of the capacitor is marked.  Look for the big arrows on the side pointing to the - end; and connect the rectifier's - terminal to the capacitor's - terminal.  Then connect the rectifier's + terminal to the capacitor's other terminal, which is its + terminal.  The two remaining rectifier terminals go, one to the frame, the other to the pickup wire.

The first of the original sockets is in fact already insulated.  That's why you don't need to replace it.  Its terminal that used to be connected to the pickup wire will now be connected to one end (either one) of the capacitor.  The wire that ran between the sockets will just be transferred from the old socket to the new socket.  The other terminal of the new socket will be connected to the other end of the capacitor.  So the two lamps will be in series (as they were before); and that series string will be connected across the capacitor.  That's what keeps the lights on, as the capacitor suppllies current to the lamps over interruptions in the center rail.

 Great explanation for a guy who needs electronics for dummies.  I think I completely understand it now. As soon as my styrene and my 22 ga wire get here I can put this all together and try it out. The only thing I know for sure about electronic components is that they run on smoke. When the smoke comes out they quite working.

Thanks for your help. 

I'll let you know how it comes out.